Ubehage Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 As mentioned in another post earlier, I had some problems with a really bad batch of Bismuth Trioxide.Now, after spending loads of money and asking my suppliers to find other sources, I have concluded that pyro-grade Bi2O3 is apparently gone extinct in Europe If any of you know better than me on this subject, please speak up! Anyway.. Because of that, I have no other choice than to make dragon eggs with Red Lead.Before I begin with this obviously hazardous adventure, I want to make sure that I am doing things right. I'm aware of Lead being very toxic, and I have ordered an Asbestos-suit and a gas-mask for painters.Is there any special precautions I should take, other than this?Does Lead have any special chemical properties that needs to be handled different than Bismuth-eggs? E.g. sensitivity or lower ignition-point?
rsambo Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 You could try the no-heavy metal mixes as published in the recent AFN or you could still use Bismuth. There are still plenty of suppliers in Europe : This is pyro grade Bismuth Trioxide, and it is what I use. He will gladly ship to Europe : http://viscoandthings.moonfruit.com/shop/4589130374
Ubehage Posted October 15, 2015 Author Posted October 15, 2015 This is pyro grade Bismuth Trioxide, and it is what I use. He will gladly ship to Europe : http://viscoandthings.moonfruit.com/shop/4589130374His page doesn't look very convincing.There's no contact-info or anything, and according to the FAQ he only ships to the UK (and the order-page allows you to select otherwise?!?)When trying to finish the order, I am sent to PayPal who tells me that the account belongs to Pyro-Gear, from who I have bad experiences.. But thank you anyway
schroedinger Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Pyrogarage has a new type of Bi2O3 since this week, which is supposed to be more dense.Als like mentioned above you can use the AFN dragon eggs.Also you can use SnO2, PbO2 or Sb2O3 1
Ubehage Posted October 15, 2015 Author Posted October 15, 2015 Pyrogarage has a new type of Bi2O3 since this week, which is supposed to be more dense.Als like mentioned above you can use the AFN dragon eggs.Also you can use SnO2, PbO2 or Sb2O3Thank you.PyroGarage is my most reliable supplier. But the new Bi2O3 that he got, is still crap. You won't get crackle or dragon eggs from this.As far as my experimentation shows, it just "slows down" the combustion from the Copper-Thermite that is in the mix.All the different ratios I tried, all turned out to be something like flash-powder. Some more rapid-burning than others.
rsambo Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Don't be offended mate, but if that's the case you aint making it right! I suspect it's not your Bi2O3...
Ubehage Posted October 15, 2015 Author Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Don't be offended mate, but if that's the case you aint making it right! I suspect it's not your Bi2O3...I know what you mean Let me explain a bit:Last year, I bought some Bi2O3 and made a lot of dragon eggs. I got to know the techniques of timing and priming, and had a lot of fun.When I bought my next batch of Bi2O3 from him, it was a totally different chemical I got. Seriously, both the looks and feels of it told me that this was NOT Bi2O3.But, the supplier said it was... So I told him my experiences, and he searched for a different source.He got the new higher-density, which still is not the same as the first batch. And doesn't work like it used to. You should buy some of him and take a look at it. Then tell me if you have any ideas I have also bought smaller quantities from 2 other suppliers, but they all have the same shit.That's why I think Bi2O3 might be extinct in Europe. Someone's fucking up the production... Edited October 15, 2015 by Ubehage
Jakenbake Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I wonder whats worse for you...wearing an asbestos suit or handling some led. 1
rogeryermaw Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Are you using the same batch of magnalium as with your previously successful d.e.? If it's not proper 50/50 or perhaps slightly different mesh it may behave strangely too. 1
Col Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 asbestos suit seems a tad extreme Work outdoors wearing normal PPE and a good respirator fitted with hazardous particulate elements. Dont forget eye protection and cover your skin.
Peret Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 If you make green stars with barium nitrate, a little red lead shouldn't worry you. It's much easier to poison yourself with the former than the latter, which is insoluble. Wear gloves and use a respirator to avoid breathing the dust 1
FloridaCracker Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Can you explain the problem a bit better? Normal bismuth based dragon egg mix will act a bit like flash when still a powder. What happens when made into eggs? Do they glow red? Make a bunch of crackly sparks and go out with most of the egg unreacted? Explode violently? Which formula are you using? Does your new bismuth seem like a fine talc like powder or does it seem more coarse with grains you can feel? Still the dull yellow color and very dense? A lb should fit in a 4 oz container. Which means a kilo should fit in roughly a 250 ml container since you're in Europe. I can't imagine it being "bad" unless someone was sent the wrong thing. But particle size can definitely throw things off as I found out when someone traded me a pound of bismuth that was quite coarse. I believe he said it came from a ceramics supplier. For the others that suggested the formula in AFN. Has anyone found the oddball chemical they used and have a supplier for it?
Mike Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Florida have a talk with lloyd. In europe it is easy to get.
Ubehage Posted October 19, 2015 Author Posted October 19, 2015 I have succesfully made a batch of DE with Lead. Thank you guys for your advices here I did gather a little experience, that I want to share with you:Red Lead tends to clump together, plus it's significantly heavier than the other chemicals. Diapering this composition doesn't work well. The Lead will form small "balls", and stay at the bottom.I diapered this composition for about a minute. In this process, only the MgAl, CuO and Al would get mixed together, with the Lead staying at the bottom the entire time.After diapering, I poured it into a bowl with NC Lacquer and got it all wet. Then I continued to mix the composition by kneading and manipulating the dough. This turned out to work well. Although, it seems like most of what I learned about timing the eggs using MgAl-mesh sizes, needs tweaking when it comes to Lead.
Col Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 You can do all the mixing and kneading in a ziplock bag With no evaporation you can take your time.. 1
rsambo Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 This is worth watching. Mike Swisher doesn't seem too worried about his red lead ! I can't quite believe it !
Ubehage Posted October 20, 2015 Author Posted October 20, 2015 This is worth watching. Mike Swisher doesn't seem too worried about his red lead ! I can't quite believe it ! When I measured the chemicals, I was wearing latex-gloves like him. And my hands were red when I removed the gloves! I'm keeping my good gloves on from now on
Arthur Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 red lead is insoluble so doesn't easily pass into the body, so minimise contact and wash your hands, most other pyro poisons will pass through the skin in the skins natural oils and moisture.
Col Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) The ziplock will put another barrier in the way Its soluble in HCi (aka stomach acid) so you dont want to inadvertanty transfer it from skin to mouth. A good respirator is a must, the only chem i`m more uneasy around is K dichromate, strangely that one is bright orange too lol Edited October 20, 2015 by Col 1
rsambo Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Yes, did you see just how far and wide the dust was travelling! Did you see the bare hands bit?
Mumbles Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 When I measured the chemicals, I was wearing latex-gloves like him. And my hands were red when I removed the gloves! I'm keeping my good gloves on from now on For what it's worth, his gloves look to be nitrile. I've had some chemical break through issues with latex like you describe, that didn't happen with nitrile. 1
rsambo Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 I'm not sure I could ever hope to acquire even a pinch of the level of pyrotechnic knowledge Mike Swisher has but I am quite stunned by it. I'm sure there is good reason he knows what he is doing but I'll stick with the gloves, respirator and working outside. 1
Ubehage Posted October 21, 2015 Author Posted October 21, 2015 I'm not sure I could ever hope to acquire even a pinch of the level of pyrotechnic knowledge Mike Swisher has but I am quite stunned by it. I'm sure there is good reason he knows what he is doing but I'll stick with the gloves, respirator and working outside.I found that Lead is so heavy, that a respirator "might not" be needed at all, for working with Lead. The Magnalium and Aluminum is a much bigger concern on that matter. 1
rsambo Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Last year, I bought some Bi2O3 and made a lot of dragon eggs. I got to know the techniques of timing and priming, and had a lot of fun.When I bought my next batch of Bi2O3 from him, it was a totally different chemical I got. Seriously, both the looks and feels of it told me that this was NOT Bi2O3.But, the supplier said it was... So I told him my experiences, and he searched for a different source.He got the new higher-density, which still is not the same as the first batch. And doesn't work like it used to. You should buy some of him and take a look at it. Then tell me if you have any ideas I have also bought smaller quantities from 2 other suppliers, but they all have the same shit.That's why I think Bi2O3 might be extinct in Europe. Someone's fucking up the production... Just following up on this, I have obtained some of the HD Bismuth Trioxide from PyroGarage and using Lloyd's method this performs extremely well. In fact the reports are louder than the Bismuth Trioxide I have in stock which was sourced originally from Oliver Brown before they closed. I have also the LD version and I will test this and compare. But I have to say this is an excellent product - I would recommend it to anyone in the EU. 1
Ubehage Posted November 22, 2015 Author Posted November 22, 2015 Just following up on this, I have obtained some of the HD Bismuth Trioxide from PyroGarage and using Lloyd's method this performs extremely well. In fact the reports are louder than the Bismuth Trioxide I have in stock which was sourced originally from Oliver Brown before they closed. I have also the LD version and I will test this and compare. But I have to say this is an excellent product - I would recommend it to anyone in the EU.That's actually what I hoped to hear. That I am doing something wrong...Can you tell me the formula used?I used to use 37.5% Bi2O3, 37.5% CuO and 25% MgAl
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