MadMat Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Up until now I have been making all my charcoal from willow. Recently, the county road crews trimmed a bunch of cedar trees. It's mostly branches 1-1/2 - 2" in diameter. This wood is mostly white with just the central core being red. Is the red core the only part that would make good charcoal or would all of it work? I guess its just hard to pass up a good supply of wood (that is if it will work ) Edited October 8, 2015 by MadMat
memo Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 MY CEDAR I USE IS TROPICAL CEDAR. I USE WHITE WOOD AND RED. IT MAKES GOOD BP, MAYBE NOT THE FASTEST IN THE WORLD. BUT I AM NOT IN A RACE. MEMO DAMN CAP LOCK WAS ON
OldMarine Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Around here we have scads of Eastern Red Cedar (Lebanon is called The Cedar City). I've been wondering how it would work for charcoal. It's resinous so I'm thinking it might be sparky like pine.
MadMat Posted October 9, 2015 Author Posted October 9, 2015 Yeah, I'm in north-eastern Missouri, and as the saying goes; "if you scratch a spot in the dirt, a cedar tree will pop up." I have the luck of having 5 willow trees lining a pond in back, and have been using wood from them (with great success!) But I thought I would give cedar a try. I know there isn't much heartwood in branches 2" and under, that's why I'm asking if anyone knows if the white sapwood will work as well.
Mumbles Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Give it a shot. I bet it will work fine. As already mentioned, you may not be winning speed contests, but it should be up there. I know a lot of people who use cooked pet bedding, which is Eastern Red Cedar in many locations. I also know of several who have used scrap cedar fencing material. All of said people have had great results. My very limited experience with the wood is that it seems much more resinous and sticky when freshly cut, but seems to diminish as it cures. I should emphasize my very limited experience.
braddsn Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 MadMat, the red part of the wood (heartwood) and the white part (sapwood) work equally well. The structure of the wood fibre is what makes ERC so great, so it doesn't matter which part of the tree you use. ERC is all I use and with the tests I have done against willow, it is just as 'fast'. You will be happy with it.
MadMat Posted October 9, 2015 Author Posted October 9, 2015 I didn't mean to sound like I dismissed your post Memo; I just wanted info on the cedar that grows in the midwest US. Thanks everyone for your input. I'm cooking a batch of this cedar right now.
OldMarine Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I didn't mean to sound like I dismissed your post Memo; I just wanted info on the cedar that grows in the midwest US. Thanks everyone for your input. I'm cooking a batch of this cedar right now.Don't mean to sound bossy, but we expect a full report. Thanks! 1
MadMat Posted October 11, 2015 Author Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) I made a small batch of BP with my cedar charcoal. I would say it's maybe a hair slower than willow, but it worked just fine launching my dummy shell using just mill dust. BTW it is a bit "sparkly" like pine, but I guess any conifer type wood would be. All in all I'm happy with the performance. **Update**I may have passed judgement on red cedar charcoal a little early. After actually pressing and corning it, I would say it is just as fast as willow. One thing I especially like about this BP is that it seems a little bit "sticky". I made good hard pucks with way less water. Edited October 12, 2015 by MadMat 1
MadMat Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 O. K. I did a definitive comparison of BP made from Red Cedar and Willow charcoal. I made 100 gram batches of each. For consistency all the chemicals were screened through a 40 mesh screen before milling and both batches were milled in the same mill for exactly 3 hours. Afterwards, I took a .7gram sample of the mill dust from each and spread it out into a 6 inch long line. The results are; willow was definitely faster by a small margin.
OldMarine Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 O. K. I did a definitive comparison of BP made from Red Cedar and Willow charcoal. I made 100 gram batches of each. For consistency all the chemicals were screened through a 40 mesh screen before milling and both batches were milled in the same mill for exactly 3 hours. Afterwards, I took a .7gram sample of the mill dust from each and spread it out into a 6 inch long line. The results are; willow was definitely faster by a small margin. Good news for me since I have yet to find any willow but can't swing a dead cat without hitting a cedar tree. Thanks for the report! 1
MadMat Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Just because the willow was a little faster doesn't mean I'm going to give up on the red cedar. It is still fast enough to use for lift and break. I also noticed that the BP made with red cedar charcoal was noisier and more sparkly when it burned. There are places where this would be desirable. Edited October 27, 2015 by MadMat
OldMarine Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 My son has a bud who just got a power line trimming contract so I'm going to put him on the lookout for willow(and firewood because winter) but in the meantime I have a half rick of split cedar being to be charred.
OldMarine Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 MadMat, what method do you use for your charcoal? I've used the retort method with good results for barbecuing but not for pyro. I've not tried the TLUD everyone seems to use.
MadMat Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 I use a 1 gallon paint can for a retort. It's worked just fine for me with the only problem of size. At some point, I'm going to either make a larger retort or try making a TLUD.
OldMarine Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I used a 5 gallon lard stand but it took so much wood to heat it and the metal seemed to deteriorate after only one batch that it doesn't seem to be a good choice. I'm not clear on the TLUD process but I guess I'll keep reading and reading and reading..
OldMarine Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Does cedar need to be de-barked before processing? Unlike hardwood it has very little bark but I don't want any undesirable junk in there if I can help it. I snagged a heavy 5 gallon can with a snap latch lid that is pretty stout and am going to try the cedar in it.
MadMat Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 I always strip the bark off of wood before cooking.
mikeee Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Bark contains a lot of foreign materials (dirt, sand, insects, pellets, bb's, etc.)
OldMarine Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 I was going to use branches but I think I'll split the bark from larger logs then split the centers for charcoal. I can use the bark slabs for kindling in the woodstove. I've got a pile of old Hackberry to heat my retort.
macs Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I use a 1 gallon paint can for a retort. It's worked just fine for me with the only problem of size. At some point, I'm going to either make a larger retort or try making a TLUD.Hey MadMat, I too have always used the retort method up until today...I just built my first 1 gallon TLUD today and tried it out with Southern yellow pine bedding pellets. It worked beautifully! I wish I would have built the TLUD years ago! Mine consisted of only 3 parts, all of which I got from the local hardware store. Only tool needed was a hand drill with a 1/4 drill bit. It's an awesome device.
OldMarine Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 @macs How much of a return do you get? I'm not short of wood but don't want a piddly 10% charcoal to wood ratio. Sounds simpler than a retort.
Arthur Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 If you try to cook live wood straight from the tree you use a lot of fuel to boil the water off first so you get about 8% w/w return. If you use dried/seasoned wood I get about 22 - 25% product by weight. Bark isn't good and anything metal is very bad because it may get into the ball mill.
macs Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 @macs How much of a return do you get? I'm not short of wood but don't want a piddly 10% charcoal to wood ratio. Sounds simpler than a retort.I got nearly 18% yield. Exact percentage was 17.98%. I was able to fit 2409.56 grams of SYP pellets into the 1 gallon paint can, which brought the level up to just below the top. I recovered 433.3 grams of finished product. Conversion to charcoal took 1 hour and 20 minutes. I have some Black Willow that I collected locally that I am planning on running thru my new toy. Black Willow is my usual choice for lift, burst, black match and rifle powder for my muzzleloaders. It grows like weeds over here in my neck of the woods.
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