new blue formulations (less toxic?)

[rogeryermaw]

perhaps some of you have run across this out in the aethers of cyberspace. anyone tried any of these bromine containing copper salts? they make some pretty fantastic claims here. perhaps some of our more chemically educated members can comment on the safety and economic viability of these mixtures. also a decent blue without perchlorates or chlorates might be enticing to our homies down under.

 

http://www.en.uni-muenchen.de/news/newsarchiv/2015/klapoetke_kupferbromid.html

 

 

doing some searching around, while these chemicals don't seem to have much use that would cause them to be restricted or heavily regulated, they do seem a little harder to find than standard pyro chemicals.

Edited September 19, 2015 by rogeryermaw

[Mumbles]

This is something I've always wanted to try. Very cool to know it works.

 

The blue thing isn't really anything new though, which makes me wonder why it got into that journal in the first place. Even Hardt says that copper and bromine species make a somewhat more blue blue than chloride. The color emission bands are deeper into the blue wavelengths than respective chloride ones. I might have talked about this in the past, if not publicly then privately certainly. The issue is the availability of bromine sources. There is actually one possibility as a flame retardant, basically bromo parlon or bromo dechlorane. It's just much more expensive than the chlorinated version. If I recall, they were usually mixed bromine and chlorine sources too, which may partly mitigate the effect. The stuff they're using in the article is basically a primary explosive. Bromates are even more explosive than chlorates. TACC and TACP are both explosives.

[rogeryermaw]

i was just visiting a couple of my lab supply sources and they do not list any of the chemicals mentioned here, except of course for the hexamine which is pretty easy to find. i suppose the standard commercial only sources such as sigma and alfa would be the likely places to source the more exotic compounds. shame...

 

thank you for the information Mumbles. with the more explosive nature of these bromates as compared with chlorates, are the chemical incompatibilities also as numerous and troublesome?

Edited September 19, 2015 by rogeryermaw

[schroedinger]

Wondering just like mumbles why the publicate it there, maybe i will get the journal and read the article to see what they really did. Btw. the argicle is written buy Klapoetke group from munich germany, which is known for quite a lot of development in the explosives section in europe.

 

Bromates can easly prepared at home by electrolysis. The dangerous part is the refinning and emptying the cell. Liquid bromine forms during this process.

[PIL]

Potassium bromate is a powerful oxidizer- even more powerful and reactive than potassium chlorate.

[stibium]

Hi

I found this:

 

http://www.en.uni-muenchen.de/news/newsarchiv/2014/klapoetke_pyrotechnics.html

[Arthur]

Are bromine compounds any less toxic than chlorine compounds?

 

I remember a change in anti fouling paint for boats -used to be copper metal in the paint, someone decided that tin would be "better" and sold it on some environmental grounds then they found that tin salts actually caused mutations in the crustaceans that made up the fouling whereas copper just stopped them growing. Tin salts were rapidly removed from the market.

[rogeryermaw]

the article stibium linked says the brominated by procucts are use as a contrast in some sort of med scan so should be relatively safe to humans in small amounts.