Poor lift powder not getting shells and baseball high enough into the air

[nater]

The TLUD method makes less smoke than a retort. Using a 1 gallon paint can, it does not make any more smoke than a charcoal grill. I can even set the pain can in the fireplace and cook charcoal with wisps of smoke rising up the chimney.

[jordanm]

a 30 gallon metal trash can made into a tlud will cook half a bag in under 15 minutes.

Thanks i will look into the tlud. Currently there is a yellow flame coming out the top of the can and its going on 45 minutes. So i should just wait until the flame disappears and there is no more smoke? I will be doing a baseball test fire soon with double what i did yesterday so 34g of bp. I sure hope it stays in the air for the 4 seconds. If this is the case i will just double the bp i need in all the shells until i use up this bad stuff. I tried making black match with 1.5mm cotton thread and after test lighting a piece i was very disappointed with how slow it burned so i went for just buying the quickmatch. I try to make whatever i can and still maintain a high quality.

[jordanm]

Can you over cook the charcoal in the container because i do not see any more smoke or flame coming out the top but i dont want to undercook it?

[pyrokid]

take if off and seal it.

[jordanm]

take if off and seal it.

Wheww ok i can out there and took it off and sealed it. Now onto batch 2. Seems like that one took a little over an hr. I might make a 5 gallon tlud out of a 5 gallon bucket. Seems like this would be a good size. Is there any specifics on how big of chimney should go on it both width and height? Also it seems like the chips would fall through the bottom holes is this not the case. So if you filled a 5 gallon bucket to the top with chips it imagined it would be kind of packed down. Has anyone ever ran into a problem with it being packed down and not allowing much ventilation through the bottom? I am so grateful for everyone that has been helping me with this today. This forum is very lucky.

[jordanm]

Charcoal came out looking great and appears to look just like what is in the video. Here is the video compilation of the test shots from yesterday and today. The description contains the amount of granulated BP used. The last shot was the one i just did and the baseball flew way to high! I estimate it was in the air for around 10 seconds which would mean that the fall time was 7 seconds. That would mean the height was around 784 feet! I have no idea whats going on with my black powder anymore. Since the amount of black powder added and height have a liner relationship i only expected this to reach a time double of what i saw yesterday which was around 2 seconds so today the 34 grams should have yielded a fall time of 4 seconds which would have been around 300 feet like it should have. Maybe i should repeat the test tommorow but not with the 34 grams. Maybe 15,18, and 20 grams instead.

[calebkessinger]

Ok, what are we watching now?

The first ones were only about 75 feet high from what I can tell, correct?

Get a stop watch !!! ( your phone probably has one ) Just saying the count isn't close enough to tell much. When it goes boom and is gone for 12 seconds it's like an eternity and it's really hard to see where it is unless you can get stood way back from the gun usually with the sun behind you. When I did my testing I just hid under the pavilion and waited for the thump.

 

I'm glad it seems like your first batch of home made charcoal was better ! Just wait till you use some cedar !!!

 

That's Awesome !!! Great Job !

[Livingston]

http://m.lowes.com/pd/Cedar-Shavings/50006484?http://m.lowes.com/pd/Cedar-Shavings/50006484=

 

I buy mine at Walmart!!! I cook it using thud method. Very easy!!! I just mill my BP for 4 hours in my 15llb ball with 12 lb media I got from Caleb. My BP is hot!!! Use it for lift and burst!!!

[braddsn]

Jordan, like others have said, I have found that good 'hot' charcoal is the main factor in bp quality and power, followed by your milling practices. I have tried several popular wood species, and the best 2 I have used are Eastern Red Cedar and Willow. I stuck with the Cedar and it's all I use. Something else to consider: last winter we had some pretty bad weather and I just couldn't get out to cook any charcoal for a few weeks, so I went ahead and ordered some hardwood charcoal while I ordered my other chemicals, thought I would give it a try. Heck it was cheap, and certainly convenient. I also thought... "how much difference could it REALLY make..?" The difference was jaw dropping to me. My bp suffered badly, and my prime (I use a few different primes, all of them contain charcoal) also suffered. And lastly, my charcoal based stars didn't have as nice of a tail and weren't as bright as with the Cedar charcoal. Bottom line, I am never using sub-par charcoal again. Too much work is involved in pyro to be using a poor charcoal. Thought I would share my experience with it. Once you settle on a charcoal you like, make your bp exactly the same every time and you will have consistent lift heights and breaks. Good luck!

[jordanm]

Ok, what are we watching now?

The first ones were only about 75 feet high from what I can tell, correct?

Get a stop watch !!! ( your phone probably has one ) Just saying the count isn't close enough to tell much. When it goes boom and is gone for 12 seconds it's like an eternity and it's really hard to see where it is unless you can get stood way back from the gun usually with the sun behind you. When I did my testing I just hid under the pavilion and waited for the thump.

 

I'm glad it seems like your first batch of home made charcoal was better ! Just wait till you use some cedar !!!

 

That's Awesome !!! Great Job !

Those were the baseball test shots from 2 days ago and last night. I will post the description off of youtube below:

"First shot is with 20-8 mesh powder 7.09g, second is 11.34g, third is 12.76g, fourth is 14.17g. The 5th shot is with 14.17g 4-8 mesh powder. The sixth shot is with 12.76g of 8-20 mesh powder but using quick match fuse. Seems like there is an improvement. The last shot is from today which contained 34.01g of 8-20 Mesh and seems to have flown for around 10 seconds. This seems way to overpowered. Sorry about the video of the last one."

 

The last video was the same exact lift that was used in the previous day. I do not understand how it went so much higher! My only guess is that possibly the liftcup and baseball were not completely seated in the bottom the day before but thats only a guess. Tonight i am going to do 3 more test with the baseball. 15g,18g and 20g bp. I was trying to stopwatch it but i figured i could always go back and watch the videos and time them later since it is hard to light a fuse, film and time the lift. I will be working on making a tlud this weekend.

I was very surprised at how much charcoal was made in a gallon paint can and how easily it milled after just crushing it and throwing it in the mill. Only took a few minutes to turn it down into powder.

[calebkessinger]

Sounds like you are on your way to having usable powder pretty quickly !!

 

YEAH !!!

[Arthur]

If you put the hole in the bottom of the paint tin the smoke blows into the fire and tends to burn -it's a much cleaner way of working.

[jordanm]

So for the tlud im reading that the taller the smoke stack the better? What is to tall? Im going to be making one out of a 10-15 gallon trash can. And is it the same concept that when the fire stops coming out the stack that all the wood has turned to charcoal so then you immediately cover it or take and dump it into a container and seal it right away?

[jordanm]

But i also found this comment:
make your chimney no more than 50% your burner size, preferably less. For a 12" diameter burner, no more than a 6" pipe. You need a significant constriction to set up the pyrolyzation layer properly.[/size]

I think my tlud will look exactly like the picture attached when i am finished with it.

[calebkessinger]

Don't freak out if you can only get close.. my first one was a five gallon bucket with a metal 1 gallon paint can as a chimney.

Worked. Just have to pay attention to how it burns on the inside and not let it all burn up.

[jordanm]

Thanks. Would there be any use to adding a baffle in the chimney or is unrestricted airflow ideal? I only ask because i have on laying around.

[jordanm]

The first shot is with 15g of 8-20mesh, second shot 18g of 8-20 mesh, third shot is with 20g of 8-20 Mesh, fourth shot is 18g of 4-8 Mesh. I do not understand how the first shot can stay in the air for around 8 seconds whereas the second and third shot are at 6 seconds which contain more black powder. And the last shot I have no idea why it barely got the ball out of the tube. It would be nice to get consistent data so that I could approximate how much of this bad bp I need to use to get my shells into the air but it’s looking like I miswell discard all of it and start over with the new stuff I make after this weekend. I just hope I do not run into the same inconsistent data with the new charcoal because right now this is not making any sense to me.

[memo]

being a new guy myself I really don’t like giving someone advise.. BUT I have had the same problems. what I did was change my charcoal. didn’t have eastern red cedar , I did have tropial red cedar. it is closely related to mahogany. I cooked up some in a paint can, granulated with alcohol only… it works great for me. I needed to slow it down with some polvorone. give the red cedar a shot, granulate with alcohol and use no dextrin.

 

memo

[jordanm]

How do you granulate with alcohol only? I'm assuming you are using red gum? I would think that just the bp without a binder would fall apart

[braddsn]

Jordan, you sure that bp is dry? You put it out in the sun for an hour or so in a ziploc and look for condensation??

[Arthur]

IMO You charcoal is poor and probably damp, possibly the "BP" is damp too.

[MrW]

Also how tight is the fit of the shell in the tube? Loose fit=poor lift, snug fit= ideal lift, super tight fit.....awesome lift, potentially damaged mortar.... Also a must that bp is dry. 5cents worth

[jordanm]

Jordan, you sure that bp is dry? You put it out in the sun for an hour or so in a ziploc and look for condensation??

I will try this and see if there is sun when i get out of work.

[memo]

How do you granulate with alcohol only? I'm assuming you are using red gum? I would think that just the bp without a binder would fall apart

no red gum, just alcohol.

 

memo

[jordanm]

no red gum, just alcohol.

 

memo

How does that work out for you? Do you still maintain good granulation's without crumbling? This seems like it would reduce the moisture alot in the bp by only using alcohol and really reduce drying time.