Power source for electrolysis

[max6333]

So for most electrolysis projects a high amperage and a voltage of 5v is usually optimal.I've found some laptop power supply that are 5V-8A and some led strip ones that are 5V-40A.I like the LED strip ones except for the fact they're kinda impractical but my question is, what kind of current do they run and can it be used for electrolysis(the sellers dont provide much info)

[taiwanluthiers]

Computer power supply can be used

[Arthur]

All decisions are money driven!

 

A redundant ATX psu will give you 5v at something like 20a search the web and youtube for info on the wire colours. Switch the pale green to the black wires to turn it on. It will cost you "a beer" or the like and work well enough.

 

Beyond that search ebay. Look for a 5v smpsu at enough amps to satisfy you wishes, some are open chassis some are nicely enclosed some have no adjustment and the best have +/- 20%, add more money to get one with metering built in.

 

Biggest challenge is getting good fat wires connected in such a way that they carry current but don't corrode too quickly. look at the power cable sold for in car audio, 2 or 4 AWG is a good start.

 

Without control over the voltage, current control can be done by simply separating the electrodes.

 

Keep the tank cool (well don't let the plastic warp!)

[max6333]

I know about the computer supply and stuff (I could find only one smpsu offer and it was on spanish, pls link me one ) Could you please answer does the LED strip one work?And if not,could you help me with finding a smpsu with 5v , i wouldnt like a pc power supply it is too big and shipping is a real problem because I'm far away from most sellers

[max6333]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-110V-240V-to-DC-5-12-24-48V-1-50A-Switch-Power-Supply-Driver-LED-Strip-/291458868681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item43dc4d65c9

This is the power supply i've been talking about, it is small,compact and the shipping is free , but i dont know what kind of current it runs so I dont know if it works for electrolysis.If someone knows more about this please tell me.Also if he does can he tell me how i would wire it up to just get 2 terminals for output(because the imput/outputs are weird there)L,N,ground i know but then theres the com ones and V+ and V+(adj)

[Arthur]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5V-30A-150W-AC-DC-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-PSU-/251571857590

 

Your ebay will be more help than mine

[Arthur]

realistically if you need advice to wire it up you need professional help in your own locality to do the job for you, these are open chassis units and will have hot bits and high DC voltages as well as lots of 5vDC.

[max6333]

I know my way around eletricity but this is the first time im seeing this,I live in Croatia, trust me , I can't get anyone localy to help me.I've been considering to take the easy way out and take the easy and safe way.http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-5V-1A-2A-3A-6A-8A-10A-LED-Power-Supply-Adapter-1-2m-UK-AU-EU-US-Plug-Cord/381092772380?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3De26fcef66aed42e9aed39356399c892f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D231187138070&rt=nc-this one is basicly like a laptop power supply and I've modified a few of those already.I can easily find the terminals and I dont have to have any contact with the 230V power from the wall,biggest reason is that it's practical sturdy and wont brake or shortcicruit if something happens,also i would have to use it outside because of the gasses and it says for inside use(for the led strip one) so i would have to make some kind of protection

Edited May 26, 2015 by max6333

[frank]

5v is not 'optimal'. It is the volgate that most users use because cheap (free) computer power supplies that supply a fixed voltage of 5v are available and thats what ends up getting used. If computer power supplies suppllied 6v it would be said "6v is optimal".

 

Think controllable current supply if you want optimal.

[Arthur]

Computer power supplies are favoured for being free, other PSUs are favoured for being better suited for the job. It's your choice, and basically it's money vs skill.

[max6333]

I figured out the led strip supply,but i'm still afraid it'll shortcircuit or malfunction since its inside use only,i might have to make some protective box if i choose this one.

 

5v is not 'optimal'. It is the volgate that most users use because cheap (free) computer power supplies that supply a fixed voltage of 5v are available and thats what ends up getting used. If computer power supplies suppllied 6v it would be said "6v is optimal".

 

Think controllable current supply if you want optimal.

 

When I read guides people say that higher voltages will destroy your electrodes

[frank]

The amount of current you put into the electrode via what the area it is what destroys the electrodes. Using a higher voltage will may put to much current into/through your electrode. It is not the 'higher voltage' that destroys the electordes but too high a current.

Industrial cells have about 3.8 (around that) accross their cells. If they arranged things so that 5 volts were accross the cells they would go out of business very soon and/or the premises would go on fire!

 

5V PSU will do the job. I am just saying that there is nothing optimal about 5 volts.

[Arthur]

Yes you will need to make a protective box, Yes you will need to wire it carefully. Always look to see whether the power supply has an output adjustment, Sometimes that is enough to control the current.

[Differential]

I'm planning on using a 12 V car battery charger, and using 4 or 5 parallel plates depending on the solution (for a voltage drop of 4 or 3 volts between each plate). Was about $50, and it has settings of 10, 30, and 50 amps. Much higher output than a computer charger. It may not be as good as a proper DC supply, but it's a lot cheaper, and good to have on hand anyway in the winter.

 

Laptop chargers typically provide a "pulsed" current, but a car charger can provide constant current.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Differential

[max6333]

Also one more thing, my fuse(by google translator, the thing that shuts off your power in case off shortciruit) can do only 25A , does that mean that i cant get 40A or does the voltage change(230v to 5v) also change the max amp

[Arthur]

Differential, it's more important that the DC is smooth with little ripple, If the charger is big and has a mains transformer than it will charge well but with huge ripple on the DC which will not help the chlorate cell and will KILL the perc cell. Commercial production used six phase specially made motor generator sets to get very small ripple currents. Computer psu's will be much better smoothed and a lot kinder on the electrodes, being high frequency the smoothing components are better and smaller.

 

Max6333. Your house fuse will supply 25A you say at 230v so that's 230x25 = 5750 watts

5750w at 5v is 1150 amps and that's a lot. You will likely use 1 - 2 amps from the 230v mains

[Differential]

Well, there's a reason I'm a civil engineer and not chemical or electrical, but wouldn't a pulsed current with low ripple (laptop or phone charger) be worse than a car charger? I mean, I've done electrolysis with laptop chargers (3 different ones! - Toshiba, Asus, and Dell) and you can see the reaction starting and stopping.

[Arthur]

start and stop behaviour is usually caused by overloading and the supply going into thermal cut out then restarting as it cools again

[max6333]

Differential, it's more important that the DC is smooth with little ripple, If the charger is big and has a mains transformer than it will charge well but with huge ripple on the DC which will not help the chlorate cell and will KILL the perc cell. Commercial production used six phase specially made motor generator sets to get very small ripple currents. Computer psu's will be much better smoothed and a lot kinder on the electrodes, being high frequency the smoothing components are better and smaller.

 

Max6333. Your house fuse will supply 25A you say at 230v so that's 230x25 = 5750 watts

5750w at 5v is 1150 amps and that's a lot. You will likely use 1 - 2 amps from the 230v mains

Thanks for making it clear, i thought it was calculated like that but wasn't sure.

Also the transformer i've been looking at has the voltage ajdustment.Now I need to get a high max amp ampermeter

Edited May 28, 2015 by max6333

[WSM]

Yes you will need to make a protective box, Yes you will need to wire it carefully. Always look to see whether the power supply has an output adjustment, Sometimes that is enough to control the current.

 

?

Usually the output adjust, adjusts the voltage output, not the current (at least in my experience).

 

WSM

[WSM]

Differential, it's more important that the DC is smooth with little ripple, If the charger is big and has a mains transformer than it will charge well but with huge ripple on the DC which will not help the chlorate cell and will KILL the perc cell. Commercial production used six phase specially made motor generator sets to get very small ripple currents. Computer psu's will be much better smoothed and a lot kinder on the electrodes, being high frequency the smoothing components are better and smaller.

 

Max6333. Your house fuse will supply 25A you say at 230v so that's 230x25 = 5750 watts

5750w at 5v is 1150 amps and that's a lot. You will likely use 1 - 2 amps from the 230v mains

 

In my opinion the ideal electrochemistry DC power supply has zero ripple (AC elements on the DC power delivered), plus fully controllable voltage and current outputs (CV and CC capability). Digital voltage and current meters are a plus. As Swede advised, get one capable of delivering 0-10 Vdc and 0- (as high a current as you can afford [the higher the current output, the higher the cost, unfortunately]).

 

Typically, inexpensive power supplies deliver whatever voltage output (and quality) at a fixed current. If a 25A power supply is used but your electrodes require only 15A, you get 15A flowing.

 

It's like you have a pond with a garden hose to drain it; only so much water will flow regardless of the amount of water available. If a firehose is used then more water will flow. Current is somewhat like that; you can increase pressure (Voltage) but only as much volume (Current) will flow as is demanded by the load and limited by the electrical cross section of the conductor. Anything more is wasted as heat.

 

Not a perfect analogy, but it helps visualize the process...

 

Edit: even inexpensive power supplies can benefit from a Pi filter to remove ripple from the output.

 

WSM

Edited May 29, 2015 by WSM

[Arthur]

While most power supplies have some form of voltage adjustment and cells need controlled current a cell is approximately resistive so adjusting the applied voltage will change the current passed by the cell.

[WSM]

While most power supplies have some form of voltage adjustment and cells need controlled current a cell is approximately resistive so adjusting the applied voltage will change the current passed by the cell.

 

True. According to Ohm's law, if the resistence doesn't change then raising the voltage will raise the current (E/IR, E = electromotive force or volts [electron pressure], I = intensity or amperes [volume or quantity of electrons] and R = resistance). It's a variable adjustment to the current flow, but works.

 

In my experience, a supply with constant current capability is superior, but harder to come by.

 

WSM

[Arthur]

Anything can be bought for enough money! BUT when price is the only driver then people usually re-purpose something less than optimally suitable.

 

Hence the laptop psu with a length of thin wire so that the current causes to voltage to drop to a useful value.

 

Probably the most critical detail is the ripple voltage. Trying to get good current flow always runs close to getting some ripple peaks causing electrode erosion.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Arthur

[max6333]

 

?

Usually the output adjust, adjusts the voltage output, not the current (at least in my experience).

 

WSM

Lower voltage(with same resistance) mean lower current and the other way around