Uses for 4.5 inch paper tubes?

[mikeee]

ddewees,

 

The sauna tubes I use fit inside each other, so when each one is filled up one person can

easily carry it to the launch site. At the end of the night the different sized boxes slide

inside each other and one person can carry this back to your vehicle. When I built these I wanted

a light weight solution, our club has several coffin style boxes but you need two people to

move them around so they usually stay in one location until they are empty. All of my rockets

are identified on the top so you can easily select any rocket from the group without having to dig

through the box to get to the rockets on the bottom. Some of our club shoots are located in remote

locations with rough terrain to travel across so after dark it is nice having your goods close by

the launch site so you don't have to walk too far to access the next rocket to launch. At the end

of the night my folding chair, torch, beverage holder go inside the sauna tube and over the shoulder

it goes and it is the last thing to load in my vehicle.

[calebkessinger]

Hey Mike,

 

I just had a thought.. a travel case for golf clubs would be Great for rockets.... Maybe.

[ddewees]

I still think it's silly sticking rockets in heavy walled 4.5" tubes

[mikeee]

ddewees,

 

Depends on how big the rockets are........:-)

[mikeee]

Caleb,

 

That thought has crossed my mind on several occasions.

I did use a set of folding legs on my day box similar to ones they use on golf bags.

[Shunt]

Guess my question asked in post 11 got overlooked.

 

"What length do you think I should use for a mortar tube? A 4" is usually 24" long and a 5" 30". Split the difference and go with 27"?

"What about for a mine?"

 

Also, what would you recommend for the length of a can shell in a 4.5" gun?

 

Thanks again for all the reply's!

[braddsn]

Shunt, I would cut em to 2ft lengths. A couple inches either way isn't going to matter much, just a slight altitude difference. So I wouldn't overthink that part. I am wondering if they would hold up to firing a 4" shell though. I imagine they would.. but as far as the plug goes, I would use wood glue and glue it into place, then screw it as well. Fire some 4's out of one of them, and if it doesn't hold up, I would certainly make a few mine racks! They sound like they would be perfect for mines. The only other concern I might have, would be a flowerpot. I have flowerpotted a couple 4's out of my HDPE guns, and they hold up great! Just makes a huge starmine. But I am sure that if a 4 flowerpotted in a cardboard tube, it wouldn't be good if you were standing close. So I would put some extra visco on your QM and make sure you are a good distance away when it goes off.. Good luck

[FlaMtnBkr]

Use a liberal amount of wood glue to put the wood plugs in and then 4 wood screws once dry. I would then squirt a bit of wood glue into the bottom and turn to coat the plug and fill any cracks. Once dry it is very durable. I would also coat the ends of the tubes with wood glue where the layers of paper are exposed and glue down any places where paper is unraveling.

 

If you don't want to coat the inside with waterglass (sodium silicate) and calcium chloride then use something else. But I have heard of tubes that are 25 years old that received that treatment and still in good shape. And the chemicals aren't very hard to get, maybe even available locally. If interested just say so for the process. You can even add some lampblack to color the tubes black. But if not get some polyurethane for coating wood and cut 50:50 with acetone and pour into the finished mortar. The thinned solution will absorb into a few layers of paper then rotate to coat and then pour into the next tube to be coated. A second coat after the first dries will make more durable and use a lot less since it won't be absorbed into the paper.

 

You can then paint onto the outside or pour into a shallow tray and rotate the tube to coat the outside. Once treated they should last for years even if left outdoors, though I would try to protect from the rain so water doesn't collect in the bottom. If you are going to take the time to make mortars and formers to fit, they might as well last. And with walls that thick they should hold up fine except for maybe the really heavy multibreaks.

 

Also, sodium silicate can be found at pottery supply stores and is also used to sometimes coat chicken eggs so may be found at a farm supply or feed and seed store. Calcium chloride is used as a dessicant and can be found at hardware stores and even some grocery stores. I can't remember the brand name but it comes in a plastic container that has holes in the bottom that water drips through into a catch bucket below. They sell big bags for refills which is the best deal. Probably also sold in big bags up north for deicing drive ways.

[Shunt]

Thanks braddsn. I also think 24" would be a good length to start with. If all goes well I might go a bit longer. Fortunately I have woodworking tools to make the plugs, and for sure will use plenty of good waterproof glue and screws to secure them. I also have plenty of visco and don't mind a bit to burn a foot of it for safety's sake

 

Thanks also to FlaMtnBkr. I have the calcium chloride, (picked up a bunch of dessicant tubs at the local Dollar Tree). Also plan to make my own waterglass from silica gel beads (particular brand of cat litter) and sodium hydroxide (have to order or sign the silly paper at local hardware store and pay through the nose). So sad, can't even buy proper lye anymore in local stores because of the druggies....

 

Anyway... This is the part I am confused about.

 

FlaMtnBkr, on 20 Apr 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:
"They can be used a lot. Especially if you coat/reinforce them to protect the paper and keep it from unraveling.

There is a way to make a very durable coating on the inside and one guy claims to have tubes 25 years old. Obviously you can't leave them outdoors.

If you want to treat them:

-glue down any loose paper

-rinse inside with saturated solution of calcium chloride. Allow to stand and dry as much as possible. Very hygroscopic so will remain damp (this is wanted)

-pour in a 25% solution of sodium silicate and rotate to cover everything and pour out and save for next tube. Most liquid silicate is 40% and about like syrup so will need to be diluted a little with water.

- This will form calcium silicate which is very durable. When dry rinse with water because there will also be residual sodium chloride.

-coat outside with linseed oil and turpentine or appropriate solvent 3:1. Can add 15% lampblack to make tubes black.

-let dry for at least 2 weeks for any residual water to evaporate.

I got this from someone else and have coated inside but not outside with oil. I used wood glue on outside and ends and they are still holding up years later.

I use a wood plug 1 ID glued in with wood glue and then 4 wood screws thru tube into plug."

 

This was your reply to a question deer asked in the newbie section not long ago. Should I saturate with calcium chloride first and then dry and waterglass, or as Mike posted waterglass first, then flush with calcium chloride to transform into calcium silicate?

 

Good free paper tubes suitable for pyro seem to just be falling out of the sky for me recently, and I would like to make the best use of them as I can.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Hey,

 

The way I was told and have read about is using the calcium chloride first. Waterglass is pretty viscous and dries hard. I'm not sure how well it would penetrate the paper and how well the calcium chloride would 'mix' or penetrate the waterglass.

 

I would think that order would give the most durable coating. Maybe Mike can comment on the other way? Or try both and see what you think?

 

As for length I would cut them to get equal length on all mortars. So whatever length to give 5 or 6 mortars per 10' tube.

[Shunt]

Hey,

 

The way I was told and have read about is using the calcium chloride first. Waterglass is pretty viscous and dries hard. I'm not sure how well it would penetrate the paper and how well the calcium chloride would 'mix' or penetrate the waterglass.

 

I would think that order would give the most durable coating. Maybe Mike can comment on the other way? Or try both and see what you think?

 

As for length I would cut them to get equal length on all mortars. So whatever length to give 5 or 6 mortars per 10' tube.

 

I agree, seems like the calcium chloride solution would wet the paper and the allow the waterglass to bond with the paper better.

 

I have also found a free source for heavy paper, and would like to roll tubes for inserts, hummers, and other things. PVA glue cut about 50/50 with water, has worked well for me, but I would like to formulate a glue that contains waterglass, maybe some cheap PVA glue for a do-all pyro glue that I could make gallons of for cheap and use for most pyro projects. Seems like I read a post somewhere about a glue like this, but cannot find it.

[Mumbles]

The tube coating instructions people pass around mostly are paraphrased versions of Myke Stanbridge's instructions. They're available here, but I also included them below.

 

This topic also has some images and may help to answer some questions. http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7748-cardboard-tube-mortars/

 

Perhaps the cheapest, easiest and most effective treatment for paper mortar tubes is the following:

 

1. Clean out any debris, cobwebs, etc. Use PVA adhesive to stick down any 'flapping' edges.
2. Rinse each tube internally with a strong solution of calcium chloride in water. Allow your tubes to stand until they are just damp. Calcium chloride is rather hygroscopic and will not dry past remaining damp.
3. Using a 25% w/w solution of sodium silicate in water rinse each tube internally. Pour out the excess into your bucket and let the tubes dry open end up. There is a chemical reaction that produces tough insoluble calcium silicate in the structure of the paper. This hardens and binds the surface making it resistant to damage by abrasion and alkaline residues. When dried give the tube a fresh water rinse to remove residual sodium chloride produced in the reaction and let dry open end up in a warm location.
4.Coat your tubes externally with a mixture of spirits of turpentine 1 part (pine spirit NOT mineral turps) and boiled linseed oil 3 parts. Add 15% lampblack to the mixture if you want black tubes. Leave the tubes to dry for about two weeks, open end up... Omit this step if the tubes are for immediate use or will form elements of a boxed mortar block...

Note: I'm still using tubes prepared like this around 25 years ago, and they still function perfectly! The method of treatment is very quick and cheap once you've got set up... You can treat a hundred tubes in an hour or so for around 10 cents per tube. Painting costs around a dollar per tube and is not as effective... Regards, Myke.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Yes, those are the instructions I originally read. I've also been to a club meeting and seen tubes treated basically the same way and it did seem very durable.

 

I haven't personally done it that way because I never have found a large source of heavy cardboard tubes and my collection of fiberglass and HPDE mortars have grown to all I will personally ever need. The couple 3" mortars I have made from cardboard I used lots of wood glue and the polyurethane/acetone for the inside and outside. The wood glue is very durable and has held up well on the few I've made but would likely get pretty expensive if doing a lot of tubes.

[Shunt]

Thanks for the link Mumbles, got the chems to make Sodium silicate and plan to do it similar to this vid.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mx1-o1_MWo

 

I do have a pyrex vessel to use for the process, and am aware of fume/caustic burn issues, and will process outdoors on a good hotplate with proper PPE.

 

If anyone has ever done this before I would appreciate comments. Also thanks to the creator of this video, he has some other vids that might be of interest to APC members.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Shunt