Homemade Ebay rocket tooling

[DetroitRocketeer]

I am in the market for some BP core burning rocket tooling 1"/3lb and stumbled across this, will this serve my needs as a beginner?

 

Thanks!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pyro-rocket-tooling-set-Precision-Brass-1ins-with-two-rammers-/181714996488

[Davidg1]

In a word NO. It is cheap tat and does not work well if at all.

[Rocketier]

That's crap dude.

 

Good tool look like this. The long spindles are the bp related ones.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Rocketier

[pyrokid]

If indeed you are in Detroit, look for one of the American tool makers. Send a private message to dagabu, and he will point you in the right direction.

 

It is a good learning process to make your own tools and then fly rockets made with them. Use that cheap ebay set as inspiration for your own first tools.

[Andres1511]

If you tap the wooden rammers, they'll start to split... See it as single use (maybe you can use them 2 times, if your very carefull), so in the end it is very expensive tooling...

[Davidg1]

If you tap the wooden rammers, they'll start to split... See it as single use (maybe you can use them 2 times, if your very carefull), so in the end it is very expensive tooling...

With his stuff you would be lucky to make one. Tried it and been burned.

[mikeee]

Brass or stainless steel works well for a spindle and the rammers should be made of aluminum.

I am working on several sets of rocket tooling on my lathe right now.

Caleb has been making some nice tooling for many Pyro's this last year.

FireSmithTools and WolterTools also make quality Pyro tooling.

[Shunt]

If indeed you are in Detroit, look for one of the American tool makers. Send a private message to dagabu, and he will point you in the right direction.

 

It is a good learning process to make your own tools and then fly rockets made with them. Use that cheap ebay set as inspiration for your own first tools.

 

Good tools are like gold in our hobby, and we have a few here on our forum that can make them for sure.

 

From the forum stats, we have 6,709 members here. What if members that want to contribute put $2 in an envelope and sent it to whoever that might want to be the admin of this crazy idea. Admin would pass the money to the toolmaker, he would be reimbursed, members would have good tooling for a reasonable cost. I have 'no dogs in this race' so to speak, but I would like to see members have access to the things to work safely in our hobby.

 

Just a thought, my mind wanders after a hard day at work.

[mikeee]

To make quality precision tooling requires a fair amount of equipment and accessories

to manufacture all of the components. It also requires a lot of time to design the tooling,

machine the tooling, market and sell the tooling, package and ship the tooling. A website to

advertise and market the tooling is another labor intensive process. It may seem like the fireworks

tooling is expensive, but the raw materials and labor that go into these tools make up the majority

of the cost for producing these products. My next expense will be a milling machine that will cost a

minimum of 3-4 thousand dollars for a cheap one. The accessories to use with the mill will be another

1-2 thousand dollars for cutting tools that will wear out and need to be replaced.

[DetroitRocketeer]

To make quality precision tooling requires a fair amount of equipment and accessories

to manufacture all of the components. It also requires a lot of time to design the tooling,

machine the tooling, market and sell the tooling, package and ship the tooling. A website to

advertise and market the tooling is another labor intensive process. It may seem like the fireworks

tooling is expensive, but the raw materials and labor that go into these tools make up the majority

of the cost for producing these products. My next expense will be a milling machine that will cost a

minimum of 3-4 thousand dollars for a cheap one. The accessories to use with the mill will be another

1-2 thousand dollars for cutting tools that will wear out and need to be replaced.

 

 

I agree 100% with you that a person whom lays a investment and uses a knowledge should reap the rewards. I guess what I am looking for is more of a used set or a economy version to get me started.

[nater]

I would suggest you look for 1/2" tooling to get started and no larger than 3/4". Bigger motors take more comp and more room to fly safely. You will have ups downs while learning, so be careful with bigger motors.

[Rocketier]

@DR Penny wise, Dollar foolish.

 

If you want to start with this hobby you have to invest in tooling. Crappy stuff won't bring you there. Start of with smaller motors to get experience. They are very rewarding.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Rocketier

[GMetcalf]

I can only reiterate what others have said. I've made my own Gerb tooling using wooden rammers and that's lasted me years. So I thought it wouldn't be too hard to make myself a Rocket tool with wooden rammers and a metal spindle, however as easy as it was to put together, it didn't last very long at all. Hollow rammers basically need to be made out of metal if you want them to last is what I learned! A small Rocket tool (I have a 1/4 inch one) can make Rockets that fly up to 100 feet so don't feel like you're missing out making smaller devices! Plus a smaller tool is a lot cheaper... Mine cost me the equivalent of about $20 (I'm in the UK and we use those weird pound things over here).

 

Of course you can always make Rockets without tooling and just drill the core yourself...

[dagabu]

There are several very respected tooling makers for rockets on both sides of the pond, I recommend Caleb's tooling as he has them in stock, can do custom work and is more dedicated to customer service than any other tooling maker I have ever worked with.

 

https://squareup.com/market/WoodysCreations

 

I agree with Mikeee with one addition, half hard brass is the very best rammer materiel there is. Stainless steel is *several times harder but is notorious for its ability to gall at the slightest provocation. An all brass set would be expensive but if you are careful, it will outlast any other material by decades.

[otto]

Here's my 2 cents worth: There are some great tool makers here with products on hand that are tried, true and will last until you abuse them. Depending on your resources and relationships, I have found the mechanic at my work that is a consummate machinist and if I take good care of him and supply my own stock he will turn anything I want to the specs I provide him.

 

That said, designing tooling is a bit of uncharted water for me so I have a couple of sets made by one of the guys here. My work guy, Mark, WILL be making some stuff for me in the near future however. Just another option to consider.

 

There is a "Rocket Sketcher" program link here somewhere and that's what I intend to use to provide Mark with the specs for my projects.

 

/m

[mikeee]

Dave,

 

The other aspect of making rocket tooling, especially the taper spindles is when you purchase

the raw materials to make the spindle, two thirds of the material end up on the floor in metal chips.

As Dave mentioned brass is a good material but it is expensive, aluminum is about 1/3 the cost.

If you have the patience and mechanical aptitude you can chuck a brass bolt into a drill press

and use a file, grinder, emery cloth and metal polish and make a spindle with a threaded base.

If you visit Dan Creagan's website he has several tutorials on making homemade tooling.

[calebkessinger]

HEY

I just found this thread. Been busy.

 

Lot's of Good tooling to be had with Wolter, Ben, Dave G., and myself. I would recommend a good set over a cheap set any day of the week. Cheap is no fun to use and won't last long. This is not a poor mans hobby even though some people do make quite a lot of stuff with very few tools.. That being said, tools designed and tested to do the job at hand are always easier to work with.

This is suppose to be fun !!!! If you have to fight to get stuff to work it's not!!

 

Pick ONE size and make stuff with that size for a while. 1 lb rockets are pretty efficient on fuel usage and can really get up there. They will lift 4 inch shells to respectable heights even when made poorly. Three pound is awesome but .. runs through more powder and tube cost is double..

 

Have fun and BE SAFE !!

[DetroitRocketeer]

I am incredibly glad I found this site.

 

I have conversed a bit with Caleb and he helped me choose the tooling that will best suit my interests. Thank you everyone for the input.

[Rocketier]

This is suppose to be fun !!!! If you have to fight to get stuff to work it's not!!

 

I think that fighting to get the stuff to work is the path where comes the knowlege. The reward after that is in my opinion bigger than just leaning on the knowlege of somebody else. But that being said means that you must have accessibility to your own milling machines to make your own designed tooling. If you copy the result of somebody else you got just the illusion of competence.

[mikeee]

I can imagine the first person that talked about using metal for a rammer was looked
down on by all of the other "true" pyro artists back in the day. The early pyro's used

hard wood for rammers and many other pyro tools.

[mikeee]

As I was turning a long brass spindle on the lathe today, I adjusted my lathe speed and feed rate for the cutting

tool and it caught the work piece at the tapered end and broke the end off of the spindle. This is an additional cost

in making tooling who pays for the FUBARS, I can make a shorter spindle but I need to start over on the longer spindle.

[Rocketier]

How come Mikeee didn't you clamb your spindle on both sides of the milling machine?

Special with the long tappert ones it's a c.nt when it goes wrong.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Rocketier

[mikeee]

Rocketier,

 

Both ends were mounted between centers, however brass is somewhat a flexible soft metal so the longer the spindle

the more potential there is for the work piece to climb on top of the cutting tool on the tapered end. It still comes down

to surface area on a longer larger piece it takes time to turn a piece and the faster you try to get a piece turned the

higher the risk you take in making a mistake.

When I turn case formers on a wood lathe an 8 inch takes 3-4 times as long to turn as a 4 inch. And the materials that

go into an 8 inch compared to a 4 inch is based on the volume of the piece 4X. Amazingly what would you expect the cost to

be for an 8 inch case former if the 4 inch was $100.00 to make the math easy?

The equipment investment, materials and labor that go into tooling and what Pyro tool suppliers are selling it for is a bargain.

[calebkessinger]

OHhhh.. the learning curve mike... even the little short end burner spindles can be Jerked out of the chuck..

I finally got rid of my reject bin.. to the scrap yard !!!! a guy gets tired of looking at the many many hours and hundreds of dollars worth of mistakes..

[Richtee]

Good luck Detroit. As a fellow MI resident... I have had some issues in the past with LE/Powers That Be. Get outta town for fun and stay green.