More Uniform Star rolling?

[tradami]

So I've been playing around with rolling stars. My first two attempts were a disaster. After reading up on it more I was able to successfully roll some tiger tail stars yesterday.

 

My issue is that some grow really quick and others not so much.I use mustard seed cores and a 5 gal bucket. I know that there are easier things to start with but I prefer mustard seed. I found that by the time some start to get of size, about half are still half the size. I end up having to "filter" out the big ones throughout rolling to keep them from getting too big.

 

I've found that I can use a cookie drying rack . It has 3/8" openings. It fits perfectly in the bucket and I just rotate it to pickup the stars. If it falls through it's too small. If it catches I take it out and set it aside. Doing this after every second time I add comp I was able to get mostly uniform stars. I didn't start doing this until about halfway through though.

 

Is this how it should be? Can I do anything differently to try and get more uniformity while rolling them? I understand they're not all going to end up the same size but I feel as though they're so far off that I'm doing something wrong. I used 1kg of comp.

 

Am I trying to roll more than my 5 gal bucket can handle?

 

Here's a pic. Sorry I didn't put anything down for size reference. I can take a better pic later.

 

http://oi62.tinypic.com/14dzf43.jpg

[carbonhalo]

I've only rolled 2 batches of stars and I found the same thing. so I made a set of screens from poly milk bottles with holes ranging from 4mm to 10mm.

I have to screen the batch several times during rolling

[Andres1511]

I have the same problem...

Some good tips would be appreciated.

 

Just a side note, your camera makes black TT look brown, or are you making a very special kind ? .

[tradami]

I have the same problem...

Some good tips would be appreciated.

 

Just a side note, your camera makes black TT look brown, or are you making a very special kind ? .

It's the orange lights

 

I've only rolled 2 batches of stars and I found the same thing. so I made a set of screens from poly milk bottles with holes ranging from 4mm to 10mm.

I have to screen the batch several times during rolling

 

That's exactly what I do. I guess it's not terrible as it gives you a nice range of sizes for different sized shells unless that's not your goal. I figure roll them, screen them, put the small ones back in.

[Arthur]

Either you screen the stars and pull them out when they are the size you want, putting the rest back, OR you accept a size range and screen them to suit. 3mm stars separate from 4mm separate from 5mm etc.

[Mumbles]

Smaller stars, like these, tend to be kind of difficult to control initially. This sort of variation is somewhat normal, especially as you're starting out. Charcoal streamers, like tigertail, happen to additionally be one of the more difficult ones to control in general anyway. The charcoal seems to like to suck up water quickly, which prevents even distribution. When stars start to get bigger, they'll ride to the top of the pile. This can expose them to more water, which tends to accentuate this problem. This same phenomenon can also lead to bumpy stars, called raspberries. The general lack of them seems to show you're taking your time, which is an excellent trait to have.

 

One of the tricks is to spray the leading wall with water and allow the stars to roll over the water instead of spraying them directly. This can wet the smaller stars underneath more and allow them to come back up to size. Wetting the stars and letting them roll for 5 minutes or so on their own is a good way to get the moisture distributed as well. This can sometimes help to correct a batch of stars if the consistency starts to get away from you. Adding powder on the leading edge can also help to get the comp to the undersized stars as well.

 

There really isn't a good way to get away from having to screen stars early on. Once the cores get to about 6mm or so they're a lot more well behaved. Once you get there and get them relatively uniformly screened you're in good shape. I know quite a few people who have gotten good enough they don't usually need to screen stars too much after that point.

[tradami]

Smaller stars, like these, tend to be kind of difficult to control initially. This sort of variation is somewhat normal, especially as you're starting out. Charcoal streamers, like tigertail, happen to additionally be one of the more difficult ones to control in general anyway. The charcoal seems to like to suck up water quickly, which prevents even distribution. When stars start to get bigger, they'll ride to the top of the pile. This can expose them to more water, which tends to accentuate this problem. This same phenomenon can also lead to bumpy stars, called raspberries. The general lack of them seems to show you're taking your time, which is an excellent trait to have.

 

One of the tricks is to spray the leading wall with water and allow the stars to roll over the water instead of spraying them directly. This can wet the smaller stars underneath more and allow them to come back up to size. Wetting the stars and letting them roll for 5 minutes or so on their own is a good way to get the moisture distributed as well. This can sometimes help to correct a batch of stars if the consistency starts to get away from you. Adding powder on the leading edge can also help to get the comp to the undersized stars as well.

 

There really isn't a good way to get away from having to screen stars early on. Once the cores get to about 6mm or so they're a lot more well behaved. Once you get there and get them relatively uniformly screened you're in good shape. I know quite a few people who have gotten good enough they don't usually need to screen stars too much after that point.

 

Thanks for that info. It's much appreciated. For my third attempt at rolling stars I felt I did fairly well. I thought I had made a mistake somewhere. My first two attempts were with electric violet comp. I had raspberries and I used too many cores for the comp I had. I'm happy with these stars though.

[Ubehage]

Smaller stars, like these, tend to be kind of difficult to control initially. This sort of variation is somewhat normal, especially as you're starting out. Charcoal streamers, like tigertail, happen to additionally be one of the more difficult ones to control in general anyway. The charcoal seems to like to suck up water quickly, which prevents even distribution. When stars start to get bigger, they'll ride to the top of the pile. This can expose them to more water, which tends to accentuate this problem. This same phenomenon can also lead to bumpy stars, called raspberries. The general lack of them seems to show you're taking your time, which is an excellent trait to have.

 

One of the tricks is to spray the leading wall with water and allow the stars to roll over the water instead of spraying them directly. This can wet the smaller stars underneath more and allow them to come back up to size. Wetting the stars and letting them roll for 5 minutes or so on their own is a good way to get the moisture distributed as well. This can sometimes help to correct a batch of stars if the consistency starts to get away from you. Adding powder on the leading edge can also help to get the comp to the undersized stars as well.

 

There really isn't a good way to get away from having to screen stars early on. Once the cores get to about 6mm or so they're a lot more well behaved. Once you get there and get them relatively uniformly screened you're in good shape. I know quite a few people who have gotten good enough they don't usually need to screen stars too much after that point.

Awesome addition to existing tutorials!

Thank you

[tradami]

So I've roughly sorted them.

Less than 3/8"

 

Less than 5/8" but greater than 3/8"

 

Greater than 5/8"

[ddewees]

Yummy!

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Those later pictures look very good.

 

I use a 5 gallon bucket roller also. They are a very good size container to start cores. A very good trick to help you get rolling easier is to start with a bunch of cores. I use lead shot, so they are a touch bigger than mustard seeds. 1/8 cup seems to be a good amount to work with for me using lead shot. The idea is that the powder has a better chance to spread out evenly over the cores and size more uniformly. Here are a few tricks while rolling to help you get going.

 

1. When you start your batch, spray dextrin lacquer instead of pure water. This makes the cores sticky from the start so they are more willing to accept powder. Just dissolve 1 part dextrin to 10 parts water to make this stuff. EZPZ. Dont use it throughout the batch, just when starting rolling a new batch, or bringing a dried batch in for more comp. After 1-2 uses you can switch to step 2

 

2. Spray the batch with 10% alcohol and let roll for a few minutes, especially with a charcoal comp like TT or C6 etc. The alcohol breaks the surface tension and allows the moisture to circulate very well. Roll with the 10% alcohol until 1/4" size.

 

3. Allow these stars to completely dry before going larger. I find that rolling with the toro method after this point makes things substantially easier and more uniform. Give it a shot and let me know how it goes.

[tradami]

Those later pictures look very good.

 

I use a 5 gallon bucket roller also. They are a very good size container to start cores. A very good trick to help you get rolling easier is to start with a bunch of cores. I use lead shot, so they are a touch bigger than mustard seeds. 1/8 cup seems to be a good amount to work with for me using lead shot. The idea is that the powder has a better chance to spread out evenly over the cores and size more uniformly. Here are a few tricks while rolling to help you get going.

 

1. When you start your batch, spray dextrin lacquer instead of pure water. This makes the cores sticky from the start so they are more willing to accept powder. Just dissolve 1 part dextrin to 10 parts water to make this stuff. EZPZ. Dont use it throughout the batch, just when starting rolling a new batch, or bringing a dried batch in for more comp. After 1-2 uses you can switch to step 2

 

2. Spray the batch with 10% alcohol and let roll for a few minutes, especially with a charcoal comp like TT or C6 etc. The alcohol breaks the surface tension and allows the moisture to circulate very well. Roll with the 10% alcohol until 1/4" size.

 

3. Allow these stars to completely dry before going larger. I find that rolling with the toro method after this point makes things substantially easier and more uniform. Give it a shot and let me know how it goes.

 

Thanks for that info. For these tiger tails I used a 50/50 alc/water mix. I took my time when rolling them. I initially sprayed them to get them wet and let them roll a few minutes. I then took a plastic spoon of comp and sprinkled half the spoonful and let them roll and pick it up. then I sprinkled the rest of the spoon. I let them roll for a few minutes in between each addition. I continued to do this until they started to get of size and I started screening them. I tried using my hand to circulate them more but it didn't do much. I was slow to wet them once I circulated them. I'm happy with the results though. Gives me a good range of stars to use in difference size shells. When I decide to go to bigger shells I'll have the 5/8" stars to put it in.

 

I looked into Toro but I think I'll learn one method before jumping to another. I watched some videos of it. It does intrigue me.

[enanthate]

Hey tradami,

Those shapes look good! I havent had time to read through the posts, just wanted to share my idea of making uniform sized stars.

 

Play around with this a little, using the stars you already have that are of (very!) different sizes.

Put them in your roller, adjust speed and tilt until they "separate". I have found my own prefered speed and tilt (which varies with size and amount of stars by the way, get a PWM speed regulator for accurate RPM-adjustments). My smaller stars rolls in one side of the roller, while the larger stars rolls on the other side. I spray and sprinkle the small ones only, keeping them uniform from start to finish. Fixing your stars wouldnt take long at all with the right settings, so play with the roller with dry stars and see how you can get the sizes separate, then work up the small ones. Larger stars will also pickup comp, but not nearly as much.

[tradami]

Hey tradami,

Those shapes look good! I havent had time to read through the posts, just wanted to share my idea of making uniform sized stars.

 

Play around with this a little, using the stars you already have that are of (very!) different sizes.

Put them in your roller, adjust speed and tilt until they "separate". I have found my own prefered speed and tilt (which varies with size and amount of stars by the way, get a PWM speed regulator for accurate RPM-adjustments). My smaller stars rolls in one side of the roller, while the larger stars rolls on the other side. I spray and sprinkle the small ones only, keeping them uniform from start to finish. Fixing your stars wouldnt take long at all with the right settings, so play with the roller with dry stars and see how you can get the sizes separate, then work up the small ones. Larger stars will also pickup comp, but not nearly as much.

 

Thanks. I'll play around with this. My star roller isn't anything fancy so adjusting the angle isn't really something in my play book. At least easily. Speed is modified through a dimmer switch. I did play around a bit with speed and found the "sweet spot" I'd say 10% were around 1/4", 20% were around 1/2" or larger and 70% were all pretty uniform. The latter was done towards the end after playing with speed. Once I get a warm day I'll try a batch of color stars and see how they end up. 25 degrees out today. Supposed to get up to 60 next week though.

[enanthate]

I realize my post wasnt well written, but it seems you got the point.

 

My roller does not really tilt either, but after putting the whole thing in a large storagecontainer, I tilt the machine and lean it against the wall. Its a poor solution, but works well anyway.

 

I also skimmed through mumbles post. What he says about spraying the walls of the roller because the larger stars tend to roll on the top of the pile is also very helpful, at least when they grow in size and start to pile up. My stars normally dont pile up much, except when reaching target size. Same principle however, and the combination of these two techniques alone gives me stars that are all within a millimetre diff.

Its also very easy to learn i must say, as long as you pay close attention during the first batches (my face turned grey the first couple of batches from hanging inside the roller )

[schroedinger]

For beginning your stars allready look very nice.

Two things i would try, first is increasing the time between spraying and adding comp, this should give you more spherical stars and also help with the problem of uneven sizes.

Also if your stars are smaller than 6 mm, spray 'em, let tumble for a short time and stir them up, to increase the even distribution of the water.

Once your first stars reach about 6 mm, screen out everything that is your core diameter + 1mm. These cores aren't likely to gain any more weight, and the biggest part of them are microstars formed due to accumulation of comp forming new cores.

This screening part is essential if you make stars with a brilliant or color core.