Ubehage Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I am currently planning my next order of chemicals, and one of the things I need is Bismuth Trioxide, for making crackle.However, the cost of Bismuth and Red Lead has made me think about, how much I actually "need" Bismuth, over the Lead. I am aware of a hazardous risk, working with Lead. This is to overcome, by taking the right precautions.Also, so far, I haven't come across any compositions where I needed either Bismuth or Lead. So, I would like to hear some opinions from the "pro"s, as I call you What would you recommend?Should I take the Bismuth, even tho it's so much more expensive?And, what do you think chances are, that I will soon discover another composition, where either of these will be needed?
FlaMtnBkr Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 You probably won't find any other uses for either. It basically comes down to the toxicity of the lead and if you want to deal with it every time you make DE. I have some of the red lead but always use the bismuth so far because it's what I know and have experimented with extensively. I also have a lot of it from group buys and a lucky find in a ceramic shop. If you can find a group buy for it you can get it closer to twenty a pound but they don't come up all that often. Maybe if others are interested it would be something the members of APC would want to do? It comes in 50# drums but still not super cheap though closer to the price of red lead. I like to make 'firecrackers' that have about a tablespoon of primed DE that contain about 10% Ti. It makes an intense 20' diameter of sparks and explosions that is like a strip of firecrackers on steroids packed into a small tube. It's nice knowing the smoke doesn't have a lot of toxic lead floating around. Especially when loved ones are usually close by. I've been told they perform about the same so it really comes down to cost and toxicity. A pound of either makes a lot of DE. 1 lb of lead or bismuth makes about 2.75 lbs of DE using the formula I posted in the other thread which is quite a few when cut to 1/8" cubes that are then primed. Maybe get some of each and see which you like working with better or if one seems substantially better than the other? 1
Arthur Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 If you have a supplier then get the Bismuth trioxide. but red lead is possibly easier to source. It more depends on what you can get in your country. Pottery craft suppliers may help. However remember that crackle is a part of a star, you will not need much in total. 100g ...trioxide will probably make enough crackle units to keep you going for a long while. 1
FlaMtnBkr Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 They aren't always added to stars and sometimes just dumped in with the burst. It's a pretty common effect in class C. Some would say too common.
Arthur Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I once found a crackle star it was like a pressed puck of BP with tiny orange flecks showing on the surface. Looked like BP with crackle in, and burned like BP with crackle. Prob 10mm DIA and 10mm high 1
Maserface Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 The term "dragon eggs" seems a bit ambiguous, I have seen commercially made "dragon eggs" and they were in fact matrix stars containing red lead crackling microstars; I have also seen salutes labeled "super dragon egg". Its problematic to define formulas with the commercial name given to the effect, in my opinion.
FlaMtnBkr Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I'm not saying there aren't matrix stars that contain DE, but that they don't necessarily have to be made that way. If they were pressed in a matrix they wouldn't 'crash' all at once as in the above video. The individual granules do need a good layer of prime to get them up to heat and are definitely a microstar when used as in the video. I guess the only two names associated with what we are talking about are crackle and dragon eggs. I guess I've always used the dragon eggs name because crackle sounds unimpressive and the explosion a good piece makes is pretty impressive. Though at a distance it is a crackling noise. I guess the accurate name would be exploding or crackling microstar though I do see your point. I think we are all talking about the same thing, just a bit of confusion in how they are used.
Livingston Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 So crackle always intrigued me. This pyro is always on a budget. I found a crackle formula with red lead. There's a video of mike swisher making crackling comets using red lead. I'm gunna die 1 day. 1 pound of either will last that's for sure!!!
Arthur Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 So far I'm unable to understand the difference between Dragons eggs, Crackle and Time Rain. All of which annoy me in retail items as they break any plan for making a show out of a few cakes. I know that "Airbombs" now have a crackling tail in the UK to pass device tests. Can anyone explain the difference between Dragons Eggs, Crackle and Time Rain? Maybe it means more if read from Cantonese characters.
Maserface Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 So far I'm unable to understand the difference between Dragons eggs, Crackle and Time Rain. All of which annoy me in retail items as they break any plan for making a show out of a few cakes. I know that "Airbombs" now have a crackling tail in the UK to pass device tests. Can anyone explain the difference between Dragons Eggs, Crackle and Time Rain? Maybe it means more if read from Cantonese characters. Ill try to explain, but being that the chinese dont really follow any sort of naming conventions for effects, I am liable to be wrong. The only product ive seen labeled "Dragon eggs" were pumped comets, that were a black powder matrix that contained crackling micro-stars, they could also be called crackling comets. basically this https://youtu.be/FI9DYqgNfpc "crackle" would probably be something more like Fla described above, loose crackling micro-stars that spread loosely and all explode, they arent bound in a comet, just heavily primed- https://youtu.be/LSkgf2jdOZw "time rain" is a bit confusing, I always understood it as basically a crackling micro-star as the core of a round star, so at the end up the burn, they all explode at once- I have also heard of "time rain" to describe "crackling comets". https://youtu.be/OasGCIWvaJw?t=2m55s - Now, as far as hobby fireworkers like us go, I think that the term "dragon egg" is used interchangeably with "crackling/exploding micro-stars". 1
Mumbles Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Yes, to me dragon eggs and crackle/crackling micro stars are the same thing and in most cases used interchangeably. Time rain, in most instances I've seen, are matrix comets with crackling microstars embedded in them to give a long delayed crackling effect. This, as far as I can tell, is an invented Chinese name from a few years ago, for an effect that has been being made for decades. The term dragon eggs is probably another Chinese name that has caught on. I've never really heard of a special name for crackling microstars as the cores for round stars. Just red stars to crackle or exploding core. There is also another special effect that could be confused here. There is a type of slaggy delay that can be placed over a crackle core that will burn dark(ish) for a bit, before exploding into a sphere of sparks. I've heard these referred to as Dragon Flowers or dandelion or confusingly also as just crackle/dragon eggs.
FlaMtnBkr Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I have always added 10% Ti to get the brocade or dandelion effect. Has anyone compared this to the comp that is rolled over the top and gets spread when the egg explodes? The Ti is easy and looks good so I've never tried the other. I was reading some old posts and saw where an effect was described as a dark crackle that produces no light that was referred to as no color crackle. It gave the sound but you couldn't see it so it is a bit of a surprise. Has anyone seen this effect? Or technically not seen it. It was made by an American company so probably isn't all that common. I would be very interested in knowing more about it if it is truly a form of crackle. I could see a primary HE being able to accomplish this but I don't think they are allowed in fireworks. I wonder how many interesting effects there are that we don't know about or think is something else. A lot of the small devices and different effects like Dragon eggs really intrigue me. 1
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