webski Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 OK-I love mortars!something about the pop- the flight- and effect (maybe boom ) really fascinates me.Maybe not the best starting point for my new hobby, but it's what I really want to do ! I've been lurking/learning on this forum for a couple months. It's really awesome learning from all your collective experience.!Have spent a good deal of time on you tube sorting thru the junk and occasional an good tutorial, kinda frustrating tho... I have a small fleet of mortars.1.5-3", some homebuilt and some commercial (fiberglass, cardboard tube, and steel),some bottom fused, some top fused. I've built some shells according to instructions given and had moderate success with 2" and 3" ball shells. (good lift, decent break) I'm struggling with easter egg type shells , but seems to be working better with bottom fused mortar, 1.75". Looking for advice on how to get the eggs to fly better and recommended effects for them. also where do I got from here ?I'd like to make small canisters with a lampare effect.maybe some high flyers with smoke and report ! My BP making skills are pretty good and stars are getting better . want to stay with small shells and easy compositions for now. Any advice or help would be appreciated . ron
fredjr Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Steel is only needed for heavy multibreak cylinder shells. Your steel mortar appears to be a piece of muffler pipe. DO NOT use that pipe as a mortar.
webski Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 I'm only using the 1.75 pipe to launch plastic easter eggs.max lift charge 5 g.It's been working real well for launching(100+ feet), but my breaks have been less than impressive I know a small 1.75 shell is not going to do much, but I'd like to get something kinda nice as I have abunch of kiddy eggs just waiting to be discovered !any ideas ? thanks, webs
Arthur Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Sorry but I have to suggest that you purchase some professionally made mortars. My paper mortars for 2" are 8mm wall and the 3" card mortars are about 15mm wall thickness. You wouldn't post them they would be too heavy and too expensive. IMO 3" is a fair starting size, the break is simple. However as you mention plastic eggs as cases be warned that the development of a good break is different in plastic and paper hemis. Paper the break is governed by the amount of paper you paste onto the hemis and the evenness of the pasting, for plastic hemis the break is largely controlled by the break formulation and boosting. If you are a beginner you will find it HARD to master both styles at the same time. From an environmental point of view I have an objection to plastic hemis as they remain to litter the site for years, whereas paper softens in each dew and rain until in a few weeks it is degrading into the natural bio-life of the soil. OK on hard sites (concrete etc) you have to clear up both well.
webski Posted February 24, 2015 Author Posted February 24, 2015 I have found a source for HDPE tubes and am planning on purchasing some.In the meantime it's back to the eggs.( I need to master them) any ideas or tutorials for them ? I have done well with 2" paper hemi's and 3" plastic ballsPlastic is not my 1st choice, but it is easy , and I always clean up my debris, ( shooting on a frozen lake as my testing grounds) The eggs are easy to launch with bottom fused mortars, but timing fuse , burst, and effects have been the challenge.Any tips would be really helpful. thanks, webs
enanthate Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Upload videos to receive tips, as we have no idea what you might need to improve. Welcome!
pyroman2498 Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I dont like spoon feeding people , but beginners need to start somewhere so i will help, http://www.skylighter.com/https://fireworking.com/http://www.skylighter.com/specialOffer.asp?offer=22FM12DL2H(Rice Hulls ) http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/Firefly-cut-stars.asphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GYr3MNZHMwhttp://www.pyrochemsource.com/ http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/3-Inch-Hybrid-Ball-Shells.asp I hope this helps, if you have any questions dont hesitate to ask Also Stay AWAY from a lampares and flash , There is no need to start off with flash., Stay Safe and Stay Green ~Steven Edited February 25, 2015 by pyroman2498 1
LiamPyro Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I personally think paper 2 inch ball shells are a good place to start. They are fairly easy to make and to get nice breaks from, don't use much material, and the skills learned from building them can be applied to larger shells. I also think they are just plain satisfying all around, although I have yet to make anything larger so I have nothing to compare to. If you're looking for good symmetry, I would suggest limiting the time spent screwing around with plastic Easter eggs (except for star testing!) and get to work on some nice paper shells! 2
braddsn Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Webski, you came to the right place. Lots of good folks here with all the info you need. Aerial shells is also where I started when I started pyro too. I have always loved the big commercial shells, but you can't buy em at the firework stands! LOL. Seems like you already have a good idea of what's going on... you said you were making your own black powder? Explain how you are making it, and maybe we can get a better idea of how to help ya. Are you cooking your own charcoal? And do you have a ball mill? You mentioned bottom fused mortar? I assume you mean that you are putting loose powder in the bottom of the mortar, fusing it, and dropping the shell in the top? The video that was posted above is one of the first videos I watched back when I started, and it's a great one. Vince knows how to make very nice shells. Watch it several times and take notes. Make sure and be safe... HDPE is a must in this hobby. Fiberglass is ok too but HDPE is the best and safest. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions. 3
Stef727 Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 If you feel unsafe with shells bigger than 2'' then I would just keep making 2'' till you feel safe and ready to go to bigger onesI have personally been making 2'' shells for almost a year before going with my first 3''Here is a video by VikingPyrotehnics that show how to make 2'' shell inserts for bigger shells. But you can shoot them one by one and they will work just fine! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xa9Vlr_iOU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8_KGC5iBY
db5086 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Seriously webski these guy's are spot on. Get rid of that exhaust pipe as a mortar. It only takes one mistake and that mistake could change your life as you know it. PVC is not an option either. When they shatter they send out daggers. Trust me on this one.I was lucky and placed a blast shield in front and that saved my ass. That was a long time ago but I learned a valuable,valuable lesson and started asking questions, reading as much as I could, and investing in quality guns and tooling. Plastic Easter eggs were not intended to be blasted out a mortar so why use them. I started on plastic hemis but use paper only now. There just something about a quality paste job that I get a sense of satisfaction from. Just my 2 cents.
clarkie752 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 pyrodirect.com has a 2.5 inch starter kits with everything you need to get started including 1 hdpe pipe for shooting the 2.5s you make. The last time i looked they were selling the kit for 20 bucks. Might be worth checking out if you dont have any safe tubes to shoot out of.
webski Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 I've ordered HDPE tubes from "Kastner", so I should be set for tubes.my easter eggs are flying good with nice height and break. (using thick 15" cardboard tube mortar) Now I'm starting to research 2" canister shells.Waiting till I get my new tubes to test fire any suggestions and/or recommendations ? thanks, WEBS
braddsn Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 What size tubes did you order? Hopefully some 3" and 4" tubes too! You will love the 3's... that's where they really start to get fun!! Are you making your own quickmatch? Or just using straight Visco?
webski Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 I did order some 3", and I have a HD 4" that I've been using as a blast shield around my smaller tubes during testing of shells.I've made some quick match that I use, but sometimes I just bottom (side) fuse for my smaller launches. I'm trying to get a 2" canister shell to fly better. Using a 15 " mortar with a test shell 1.8 " diameter x 4 " long weighs 72 g and lifted with 8 g of 4f BP. It just launches and tumbles upward to about 100'.Do I need to shorten my tube, add more weight, add more or less lift ? or just give it a header to make it fly better ? Just a side note: I just made BP rocket that went almost out of sight !, but that was much smaller (3/4 " x 3") with no header.a little success go a long way
braddsn Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Try a 20" tube for that little canister, that will make a big difference. You are using plenty of lift, so that's not the issue. What kind of bp? Is it homemade or Goex? You should be shooting for 150-200ft, so if you are hitting 100 ft a slightly longer tube will probably do the trick.
Livingston Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 pipe long enough... try 2g more lift.. make sure confinement very good for lift charge.. put 2" shell as head for Bp rocket to see if it will lift it..
enanthate Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) You should add more lift. Such a small shell should have at least 12%, depending on the liftquality obviously, but its not abnormal to add more than recommended to compensate for "bad" bp. Try 12g if youre using a decent mortar, this should help.Also, make sure you have a small gap between shell and mortar walls(not critical, but helpful). 1-3mm would be fine.Benzolift is also an alternative, which is supposed to be good for lifting small shells like 2". Edited March 10, 2015 by enanthate 1
webski Posted March 18, 2015 Author Posted March 18, 2015 OK, I've made some progress ! tried some new headers for my 2' canister shells to get better flight (see pics attached) The egg heads work pretty good and allow for a second break or effect and add stability to the flight.I'm using 10 % F4a for lift and a 15 " x 2" mortar (bottom fused) and its getting them up pretty good.(150-200 ft.) The new cone head style is kinda like a badminton shuttle cock and it really flies nice.I'm using cheap seed starter pots. that flare out to 2.5 inch diameter and are nice and biodegradable!Launching them from a 2.5" x 24 " mortar. they weigh approx. 80-90 g when loaded and get lifted with 10 % homemade BP and get up to 300 ' easily ! Now - I have to figure out some good spiking and break charge combinations and of course some nice effects . any ideas or suggestions to make these successful and interesting? I'm really happy with the progression of aerial shells and hopefully I'll have some thing to showby the 4th of July. Trying to keep it simple and safe. WEBS
braddsn Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Webs, your methods are certainly interesting! I think that we are going to be very limited in how we can help you, because your methods are very 'custom'. Here is something to ponder... there are basically 2 types of firework shells made.. canisters and ball shells. Those 2 designs make up 99% of aerial shells, and much research and development has went into making them both effective and as safe (as possible). Straying from the 'tried and true' methods of shell making, while certainly fun and challenging, may lead to decreased performance, and in some cases danger. Not trying to persuade you to change your methods... that's up to you. But, if you chose one of the traditional methods of shell building, we could definitely help ya dial em' in better. Trust me, even with the tried and true methods, it's challenging enough to get things dialed in... LOL... I am still not quite there yet. I think you may get more 'bang for your buck' and more satisfaction by building either ball or canister shells. Again, this is just something to ponder, not trying to discourage you.
db5086 Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Interesting looking shell you have there Webski. I do everything I can to not get egg shaped shells and here you are building mushrooms. Looks like that would create quite a bit of drag to me. Different strokes I suppose. Good luck and be careful. Load one up with Winokur #30. Sure to please!
webski Posted March 23, 2015 Author Posted March 23, 2015 I've got ball shells working pretty good. They fly good and have a nice break.I've had trouble getting 2" canisters to fly well, thus the experimenting with egg and mushroom shaped headers and it has really has helped them get up higher with out increasing the lift charge.The mushroom cone is just a canister shell addition that allows the it to fly better!now it want to work on getting a better burst. I'm using BP coated ground corn cobs as that's what has worked on my 2" and 3"ball shells. any other suggestions for burst charge and location(other than center) for these small canisters?I'm ready to start loading them up and testing my stars. webs
braddsn Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Webski, for hard breaks in shells 3" and under, do a search on KP burst. I think you would be very happy.
Mumbles Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 KP tends to be used for mid-sized shells actually (3 or 4-6" or so). You might want to consider ditching the carrier all together. They're used in larger shells to save on weight and conserve burst. In smaller shells typically these are not as much of issues. Some people (myself included) just use straight granulated BP for shells up to 2" or so.
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