braddsn Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 For those of you who are using Monocapa, in the formula that I have it says you can either use dark aluminum or black iron oxide. I don't have any black iron oxide on hand, but I am ordering some. In the meantime, I have plenty of dark aluminum. Will the dark aluminum produce the same results as the iron oxide? Thanks! Gonna give the infamous Monocapa a shot.
dagabu Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Hmmm, I don't use one or the other, I use both MgAl and Iron Oxide. Composition 24.6 Potassium perchlorate31.1 Potassium nitrate11.5 Charcoal (air float, Willow or Paulownia)4.1 Red gum4.9 Sulfur7.4 Iron Oxide (Black)12.3 Magnalium (230 mesh, or dark aluminium)4.1 Dextrin
Livingston Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Brad whats the deal with this new prime? whats the objective?
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 This prime was invented by a user here by the name of JOPETES. This has been somewhat of a revolutionary prime as it seems to have made blind stars vanish...(or unvanish). almost overnight. It is basically a BP prime cut with auxiliary fueled thermite. This stuff burns with a fierce crackle and will catch dirt on fire. It is truly some potent stuff from my experience. The author did not recommend substituting the iron oxide for aluminum, but replacing the mgal with aluminum. I typically use red iron oxide very successfully. Maybe some of the chem gurus can expand on the difference between red and black iron oxide. I think it has to do with how much oxygen is attached to the iron. In any case, this is by far my favorite prime. 2
braddsn Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 Dagabu, you are right. I guess I misread. Oh well, I ordered some iron oxide so I will be in business soon enough. Livingston, I am in search of the 'perfect' prime. After talking to a few folks and researching until my head hurts, I believe that the combination of monocapa prime with a rough outer layer might just be the ticket. I have read nothing but high praise about the monocapa prime, and I read that Ned Gorski switched to monocapa exclusively, mainly for perc based stars. He called the prime 'bulletproof' when using perc based stars, and that you can boost the shells hard and still get ignition every time. I am all about the R&D. I won't be satisfied until I have tried it all!
braddsn Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 Tyrone, there has to be something special about it, because I have searched the internet far and wide for articles on it, and everyone says the same thing, that it's amazing. I am certainly gonna find out. Do you have a layer of bp on top, or just the monocapa? I assume just the monocapa, since it literally means 'one layer'. hehe
Bobby Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Despite its name, I believe that even the originator of this prime recommends a BP out layer. Bobby
enanthate Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I mean to remember that JOPETES recommended a layer of BP somewhere.I've tried both with and without, and I've gotten blind stars no matter. Hehe.. Will try 50mesh+ liftpowder("rough powder"?) as outter layer next. Which reminds me.. Sorry to go offtopic brad, just wanted to ask a hell of a basic question, just to make sure I'm not doing something wrong or stupid or anything.I build my shells with a layer of stars stacked along the walls of both hemis', then insert a 1-layer-napkin to separate the stars from the hulls. Fill hulls to the top. That's it, no liftpowder is added between the stars or anything. Stars, napkin, burst charge. This should work, yes?Don't get me too wrong, I've had many successful shells earlier! But been struggling with pretty much 100% blind breaks recently, have no idea why this is happening. It's very frustrating to say the least! No boosters, pasting 5-8 revolutions (10-16 layers that is, smooth and tight.
schroedinger Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Yes that should work. Maybe you should make a seperate thread with a movie or photos showing all your components and how you build them. This way we will be able to find faults much easier.
dagabu Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) This prime was invented by a user here by the name of JOPETES. This has been somewhat of a revolutionary prime as it seems to have made blind stars vanish...(or unvanish). almost overnight. It is basically a BP prime cut with auxiliary fueled thermite. This stuff burns with a fierce crackle and will catch dirt on fire. It is truly some potent stuff from my experience. The author did not recommend substituting the iron oxide for aluminum, but replacing the mgal with aluminum. I typically use red iron oxide very successfully. Maybe some of the chem gurus can expand on the difference between red and black iron oxide. I think it has to do with how much oxygen is attached to the iron. In any case, this is by far my favorite prime. I think JOPETES just brought it over from Spain, some texts in Spanish speak of Monocapa prime in 2004 and 2006. Yes, heavy flash-broken shells are hard to keep lit with any prime so the lower temp of scratch BP on the surface can help keep the fire on the star as it decelerates so the monocapa can light. All Monocapa means is Monolayer, its the same in English as it is in Spanish, it is a concept of "a one-molecule thick layer of an insoluble organic material", which for our needs means a single, very thin layer of prime that will light most stars. It helps do away with complicated step-primes and poisons like Antimony Trisulphide and such. This single, thin layer can save a lot of chems and weight that would otherwise be added to stars. It may just turn out to be one of those well kept secrets that commercial or family groups have kept. I say, make a 100g batch and try it out. Oh, and read all the experiences using it as both a powder on wet stars and in a slurry, the method does make a difference. Edited February 19, 2015 by dagabu
nt8 Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) I mean to remember that JOPETES recommended a layer of BP somewhere.I've tried both with and without, and I've gotten blind stars no matter. Hehe.. Will try 50mesh+ liftpowder("rough powder"?) as outter layer next. Which reminds me.. Sorry to go offtopic brad, just wanted to ask a hell of a basic question, just to make sure I'm not doing something wrong or stupid or anything.I build my shells with a layer of stars stacked along the walls of both hemis', then insert a 1-layer-napkin to separate the stars from the hulls. Fill hulls to the top. That's it, no liftpowder is added between the stars or anything. Stars, napkin, burst charge. This should work, yes?Don't get me too wrong, I've had many successful shells earlier! But been struggling with pretty much 100% blind breaks recently, have no idea why this is happening. It's very frustrating to say the least! No boosters, pasting 5-8 revolutions (10-16 layers that is, smooth and tight. i have built approx. 150 pcs shell (2"-7"), but really full 100% blow blinds were two. And were 5-6 shells, where the prime lit, but the stars didn't.I build my shells as you: Stars, napkin, burst charge, just I have use booster usually.I have used same method allways, what is similar as pyrojig described in scratc prime topic. Two difference: I don't use hot BP, just normal. And I use additional rough layer, but only for rolled stars.Do you have full blow blind (nothing lit) or the prime lit, just the stars don't? Edited February 19, 2015 by nt8
pyrojig Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Usually I have had this prob. with heavy metal stars , or overly large metal particle size . ( blowing blind) .Most of the time the prime lights , but the stars of this nature tend to need a true "step prime" Shown in Shimizu 's FAST .
Livingston Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 freaking brad!!! can always count on you to discover new awesome pyro stuff!! Enathate there could be a few different solutions to your problem. how long do let your stars dry for?how are you priming them? when letting stars dry I always test them on the ground with a piece of blackmatch on them with no prime.. rule a thumb I was taught was wait at least a week before putting them in a shell.When priming I use a hot prime then a green mix with 5% MG/AL at 15% of the weight of the stars. EXAMPLE 1/4 stars weigh 100g then I use 15g of hot prime and 15g of Bp with %5 MG.AL Now that this topic is up im very curious to see if this will make my priming process easier!!! 1
dagabu Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 freaking brad!!! can always count on you to discover new awesome pyro stuff!! Enathate there could be a few different solutions to your problem. how long do let your stars dry for?how are you priming them? when letting stars dry I always test them on the ground with a piece of blackmatch on them with no prime.. rule a thumb I was taught was wait at least a week before putting them in a shell.When priming I use a hot prime then a green mix with 5% MG/AL at 15% of the weight of the stars. EXAMPLE 1/4 stars weigh 100g then I use 15g of hot prime and 15g of Bp with %5 MG.AL Now that this topic is up im very curious to see if this will make my priming process easier!!! Add to that rolling a final wet layer too long allowing the stars to "candy coat" creating a very hard and flat layer. Fire has a hard time on some comps when really flat.
JOPETES Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Hello everyone especially Braddsn. The mission of dark aluminum and red iron oxide or black iron oxide are different. 1 red iron oxide can be replaced by black iron oxide, the mission or function is similar to silicon powder, is create some incandescent mass or slag which helps the ignition. 2. the magnalium can be replaced by dark aluminum (German) even better result for star high speeds, but must be added to the formula 1% boric acid. Although I have already repeated on occasion in this forum, you can ensure 100% ignition at high velocities of stars if a layer latest 1mm black powder made with light charcoal (poplar or cottonwood, willow, balsa, hemp ), but in this case the monolayer should be reduced to 0.5mm thickness is more than enough and so this way there is no overall very thick layer of primer. I hope that this matter has been understood.
dagabu Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Hello everyone especially Braddsn. The mission of dark aluminum and red iron oxide or black iron oxide are different. 1 red iron oxide can be replaced by black iron oxide, the mission or function is similar to silicon powder, is create some incandescent mass or slag which helps the ignition. 2. the magnalium can be replaced by dark aluminum (German) even better result for star high speeds, but must be added to the formula 1% boric acid. Although I have already repeated on occasion in this forum, you can ensure 100% ignition at high velocities of stars if a layer latest 1mm black powder made with light charcoal (poplar or cottonwood, willow, balsa, hemp ), but in this case the monolayer should be reduced to 0.5mm thickness is more than enough and so this way there is no overall very thick layer of primer. I hope that this matter has been understood. Jopetes, Can you give us the history of Monocapa?
braddsn Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 Jopetes, thank you very much for the information. My black iron oxide came today, so tonight I am going to start priming stars with monocapa. I will keep you posted with the results! Enanthate, Livingston is right about drying stars. I can't tell you how many times I have had a failure of some type and later find that my stars weren't COMPLETELY dry.
pyrojig Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I too am going to give this prime sys a run for its money. Thank you Jopetes.It is nice to have your input and shared knowledge on the site.
enanthate Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 Brad, how did you find they were not completely dry?I usually let them dry for 24hrs first, at this point they should be hard and dry on the outside. Then i give it minimum 24 hours more.When cut in half, they seem dry to the core. Will try your blackmatch trick Livingston, makes sense! Nt8, im not sure if the prime lights. Dont have slowmo videos, but in the videos I have it looks like it doesnt ignite at all. Add to that rolling a final wet layer too long allowing the stars to "candy coat" creating a very hard and flat layer. Fire has a hard time on some comps when really flat. THERE it is! I have allways suspected that the outter layer has got that "candy coat" as you nicely refer to it. When groundtesting with a lighter, it can take up to 7-8 seconds to ignite it. The stars literally melts before igniting, as i have mentioned earlier somewhere. Will try to roll a very dry batch as test. I like to make them good and wet, as this allows to sprinkle more comp and I've found it easier to get uniform stars this way(I got them VERY uniform without sizing). I knew it was too easy, too good to be true..
braddsn Posted February 22, 2015 Author Posted February 22, 2015 Enanthate... you are finding out all the same things I am.. But I am getting it figured out quickly. First, 48 hours is not long enough unless they are drying out in the sun, or you are using a dehydrator. With my stars, I let them dry for 24-48 hours, then put them in a dehydrator for 4-6 hours to be absolutely sure they are dry. The way I test my stars for dryness... I put one on a hard surface (wood or concrete) and push down very hard trying to crush it. If it crushes, it is not dry yet. If it is completely dry, it will be un-crushable. Once I test them like this, I sort them by size and put them in their containers. A few days later I always open my star containers and make sure there is not any condensation inside the containers. This is also a sign that there is still moisture in the stars. But usually the dehydrator gets all of the moisture out. Also, here is something to add to your final bp layer of prime...... take a kitchen strainer and granulate some bp through it. It will be very fine grains. Let it dry, then run through strainer again (just like granulating regular lift). Now you have tiny bp grains. Mix those grains in your final bp prime and they will adhere to the stars making them VERY easy to ignite. I will post a pic of my stars in a minute with the small grains in prime.
braddsn Posted February 22, 2015 Author Posted February 22, 2015 Here is a picture of what I am talking about. Those are tiny granules of bp in the final prime layer. These stars take fire VERY easily... when flame gets anywhere near them they go! http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/gallery/image/3123-bp-granules-in-final-prime-layer/
enanthate Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 I really figured out the drying stuff when I first started, this is not the problem. They are uncrushable, my way to test is throw it as hard as i can to the concrete, and it doesnt crack. Dextrin keeps amazing me. I think dag scored on this one, my biggest problem is the candycoating, perhaps combined with too little prime. Im currently getting into pumping, but will roll a batch for test asap. Thanks guys, appreciate everyone's reply!
braddsn Posted February 22, 2015 Author Posted February 22, 2015 Enanthate, I also sometimes throw mine down onto the concrete to test em. Amazes me when they bounce. I think for ball shells, it's hard to beat rolling stars as the star making method. I like color changing stars. But I also realize that by design, cut stars that are primed in the patty are always going to light better. But I am determined to find the perfect priming method for rolled stars. Before I primed with the small granules of bp on the outside, I could run my map torch flame over the star at medium speed and the star wouldn't light. I could do it 10 times in a row, no ignition. Now, before the flame even actually touches the star, it ignites, every time. I believe this will make a difference. Plus, I test burned some monocapa prime before I primed some stars with it. It burns very aggressively and seems VERY hot. It looks promising. There is a reason that it has such a stellar reputation. When my mono primed stars, dry, I will put em to the test.
enanthate Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Keep us posted!I gotta agree with rolling being the better method. After a damn messy night yesterday with pumping, and stars that came out not hard enough, I realized that i really need to figure out how to properly prime rolled stars.I also believe in the granules as outter layer, will try the stars from my last picture in a couple of days. Crossing fingers! Edit: By the way, is it possible for the bp to be too hot, retarding ignition? Burst charge, not prime. Edited February 22, 2015 by enanthate
enanthate Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 I found some stars a week ago that I had forgotten about, bleser blonde to red strobes. Built a shell with them, fired today. Since I had no faith in them I didn't bother filming it at all. And of course, this shell turned out to be THE most beautiful shell I've ever shot!! Luckily I got enough stars to make another shell (which is already done by now), video of this one will come tomorrow or tuesday. The only problem now is to figure out what comp I used for the strobes... They were purple-ish with a PERFECT strobingrate. Check out the video in a couple of days!!
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