Dean411 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 It wasnt as simple as being worried about being right or wrong there were a few people who trolled just looking for an excuse to start an argument but it looks like those people may no longer be there.I dont know Kyle and have never spoken with him but his site can move you up the knowledge ladder with some really good articles, he put alot of effort In passfire and im not saying Ned hasnt done the same with fireworking but dont avoid passfire over opinions 50 bucks the first year and I believe 25 to renew, give it a chance and judge for yourself. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I also wholeheartedly agree that anyone's using terms like "condescending prick" tends to take the conversation off-course and reduce it to the lowest common denominator. A rose is a rose regardless of it's name. If someone drops in here, insinuate that they are better then you, since they wouldn't mind being a paying member, but you are the shameful creature that wants someone else to pick up the tab, then they are just shining made up holy light up everyone else's ass. Top that of with the fact that using someone else's hard work to provide a platform, in a way that someone else stand to profit from, makes you a condescending prick. And quite frankly, i haven't seen a donators badge on him, and he is here with the intent to promote this site. Hell. I don't have a problem with either on it's own. Condescending posts can be ignored, self-righteous asses go away on their own, and promote a site all you want, especially as it's an renowned source of information, which people have a interest in knowing more about, is something i'm all for. But combining them? Makes one a condescending prick. Are or were you ever a member of Passfire.com? Are the things you're accusing valid due to personal experience? I've been a member nearly since its inception. I know the bad things that happened there, and the good things that are happening now. This can hardly be a matter of debate. I've been VERY clear with the fact that i have no prior history with Passfire, and that all i ever heard of it, was positive, with (minor) flaws. Lloyd, there really isn't any excuse for a broken search-function. It's great to hear that the articles started coming up again, But i think it would help if priorities were made so that the search was fixed...But then again, as i said, i never used neither Passfire, nor Fireworking. In my mind they were both great spaces, i just never made it there. Clear as day. But if there remains any confusion let me clarify it. Never was a member of Passfire, The only bad things i heard about it was that the forum was hateful, which seams to have been fixed, the articles weren't really being updated, nor produced anymore, also fixed, and that search is broken. Speak to those matters, please, without personal invective. I'm afraid that is entirely impossible. That fella ain't no daisy. Neither am i, but i'm not running a sales-pitch...B! Edited December 28, 2015 by MrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Well, to be clear:1) The vicious members who deteriorated the conversation so much are no longer active members, and I understand they will not be allowed to renew.2) The administration of the site now actively prevents such behaviors.3) The articles are being actively produced -- about two per month, recently; and they're of high information content salient to amateur pyro.4) Discussions about what may be done about the search feature are ongoing. It's not as easy as you presume. You seem to assume that one just 'flicks a switch' (programmatically) and such a defect 'cures itself'.5) One who cannot discipline himself to carry out a civil disagreement without name-calling isn't to be respected. Rather, he falls into the same category as those who caused the problem on Passfire.com to begin with.6) The fact that such arguments might come from someone with no experience on the site further diminishes his credibility.7) Such behaviors (both 5 and 6) might also cause the decline of this site. Just to be clear.Lloyd Edited December 28, 2015 by lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 In the purpose of being equally clear... I'm calling someone "not a daisy" based on his behavior HERE.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Well, a question that raises its' head in all this - who is Pyronaught in real life? Thirteen posts, mostly promoting or defending Passfire, in a five year membership. In another thread, Mumbles addressed him as Kyle. Full disclosure is perhaps in order here. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Well, Kevin,You know who I am, and that the only interest I have in Passfire is as a member and an avid builder and teacher of pyro. I have the same interest in preserving Fireworking.com, and Pyro-Gear, and several others, including this site. Everyone needs to get back to the PYRO issues! There will always be people you don't "like" on any site. Those same people may be strong contributors to the art -- or not. But you don't discern the differences nor benefit from the contributions until you participate. "You get what you give" seems to apply. (on both sides of the discussion) Mr.B, I ask you this earnestly: You've just been embroiled in a heated and unpleasant exchange here, on your favorite site. Yet you honor the information you get here. Do you expect that any site will be different, in the long run? We run into that stuff all the time in any group of people, be it the local RC club, or the Chamber of Commerce, on pyro sites, or even at church. Depriving oneself of the benefits of the group just because there will inevitably be some conflicts seems self-defeating. Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 My head hurts. Boy, that Christmas spirit wore off quick this year! I don't care if Pyronaught is Kyle, just like I don't care if Nessalco is really Kevin. Lloyd? Well, he's really Lloyd. I think;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Well, a question that raises its' head in all this - who is Pyronaught in real life? Thirteen posts, mostly promoting or defending Passfire, in a five year membership. In another thread, Mumbles addressed him as Kyle. Full disclosure is perhaps in order here. Kevin From my outset when i pointed out the holier than thou, and other high horses, it was quite clear that promoting a different, commercialized site, was in the offending parties mind, perfectly fine to do, even tho they weren't willing to pitch in for the hard work behind the platform used to make that stand. In pretty much the same breath, they accused anyone not willing to "pay" through donations of just being lesser beings, willing to let anyone else pick up the tab. Hypocrisy, anyone? After this Mumbles name-droppped Kyle in relation to Pyronaught, but whileit might be likely to be "that" Kyle, it's not really confirmed, and sort of redundant. Would it be worse to promote a way for your self to profit, on a platform where your refusing to pitch in to the support? Sure. But at this point it's speculation, at best, and in the end it's just grades of "how low you can go". Promoting your self, or someone else, it makes little difference. Mr.B, I ask you this earnestly: You've just been embroiled in a heated and unpleasant exchange here, on your favorite site. Yet you honor the information you get here. Do you expect that any site will be different, in the long run? No, i expect that to be the same, everywhere. And i don't think that is a problem. It would be one, if that was the norm for the threads on a forum, as it reportedly was "way back when" on Passfire, but that has reportedly been fixed. I can quite easily just ignore people i don't like, or, i can let them know what i don't like, and make it possible for them to change. And as i said before. It's not about the promoting of the site. It's the way one represents while doing so.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusty56 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Man. This really got intense. When I joined PF several years ago I just wanted the data. When I joined FW I just wanted the data. Same here. It was along time before I ever went into the forums. Now I read them all the time and even post once in awhile. I am amazed at the knowledge that is here. As Lloyd intimated ain't no thing as a free lunch.Spring for both sites and drop a dime here to help defray costs. And I have no ties to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 "And as i said before. It's not about the promoting of the site. It's the way one represents while doing so."-----------------And THAT, Mr.B, I can respect. It was respectfully stated, to the point, and further, it was important to the discussion! Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessalco Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Spring for both sites and drop a dime here to help defray costs. Hear!! Hear!! Especially that last part. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I'm really not sure what everyone is getting up in arms about. APC, Fireworking, and Passfire all have their issues and their strengths. I feel they also serve different niches, and attract somewhat different people. That's the way it is. I'm probably biased about this website, but Passfire and Fireworking are both valuable resources well worth the price of admission. They are every bit as valuable, if not more so, than much of the pyrotechnic literature available. Many of the prior issues that passfire may have had are fixed or are being fixed. I can personally vouch for that. There was a drop off in activity, but that is picking back up the last I checked. Even without the forum, the articles are wonderful, and the older posts on the forum have a wealth of information. It's not the easiest to navigate at times, but once you figure out some of the tricks and intricacies you can find a lot of gems. I would recommend to anyone was getting serious about the hobby to join one if not both websites. I've learned more than I can come close to remembering from both websites. If you join one and don't like it that's fine. No website is going to appeal to everyone. You don't need to be active in the forums. I do think if you're serious about pyrotechnics, you're doing yourself a disservice by not at least giving them a chance or writing them off based on other people's opinions from years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Subscribed to Passfire today and WOW! I'll go blind before I can read everything. Started reading on my lunch break and forgot to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 <G>G<G>!L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkokpyro Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) I have no vested interest in any of the pyro forums we are discussing and am a long time member of all three. My take on all this is that it is to our benefit if there are more sources of information available, more diversity, more discussion, more tutorials and more choice. The fact that 2 of these forums are subscription based is neither here nor there since the cost per year of joining both is no more than going out for dinner twice a year. Passfire was the first forum I joined and where I learned a great deal about cylinder shell contruction from respected veteran builders who were to be found nowhere else. I am thrilled to see it coming back to life again now after a period of decline. I'm sure anyone not already a member of Passfire or fireworking will gain a great deal by joining. Oh and in the interests of 'full disclosure' I'm Paul Moulder Edited January 1, 2016 by Bangkokpyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusty56 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 There are so many sides to pyro that no one place or person can provide everything. Now this is NOT to start an argument but to make a point. I live in a state where I can get a concealed carry permit and buy a silencer for my AK47 but I can not get an ATF permit because my state says that Roman Candles and the manufacturing thereof is dangerous. (I live in Ohio) and so does Ned Gorsky. I am retired military and a retired cabinet maker and I still have all o my fingers. I would like to keep them. There are things I want to do with fireworks and I have learned things from all of these sites. Passfire has a library that is great. My star roller is from one of Kyles plans. Lloyd has answered my questions on all three sites. Thanks to everyone (almost) and buy/support all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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