"Spider" Stars - burning too quick?

[schroedinger]

Too sparki and tailed star, sounds like something not existing but rather perfect.

[pyrojig]

Pine is readily available and produces the best sparks. IMO. In my experience Plum is tricky, as there are a couple types of plum. My experience with plum was pretty hot, at least par with willow. But the spark formation was not good for me. May be that your ch is not airfloat and the larger bits are causing slow burn and sparks.

[stix]

Pine is readily available and produces the best sparks. IMO. In my experience Plum is tricky, as there are a couple types of plum. My experience with plum was pretty hot, at least par with willow. But the spark formation was not good for me. May be that your ch is not airfloat and the larger bits are causing slow burn and sparks.

 

The only pine that's readily available where I live is yellow (radiata) pine. It's used extensively for building construction. I cooked some a while back and It's very resinous. I'm sure I read somewhere that it wasn't very suitable for pyro, so I didn't bother with it.

 

The plum C was airfloat, although perhaps I didn't incorporate the bp as well as I could have, as I didn't have a ball mill at the time.

 

You're right about the variety of plum. The one I'm going to trial has small 1/2 inch red fruit with yellow sour flesh - not the standard large sweet variety that are sold in the supermarket etc. I'm going cook some and make bp as per my usual method for paulownia. A 'visual' burn test should be enough to decide if it's worth using it in a comp.

 

Cheers.

[pyrojig]

clear pine is available in trim and more cabinet working shops. You might go through their ruff pile / trash and see if you can get enough for ch . That is the target material your after .

[stix]

I did look into that, but white pine is too hard too find.

 

So tonight I've cooked up some plum. It will need a hammer to break up before milling - my usual paulownia can be crushed by fingers, so that's something to get used to.

 

I'll be doing the same spider comp as I did with paulownia charcoal - if there is no discernible difference then I'll stick with paulownia but increase the charcoal content as suggested by schroed's and others.

 

Cheers.

[Mumbles]

I suspect there is some commercially available charcoal used for cooking in your area. One idea might be to smash some of it up, and use it as-is or in conjunction with paulownia. All the varieties I've come across are fairly sparky and don't burn too fast. There are sometimes additives, but most wont harm anything. I would however avoid the stuff pre-soaked in lighter fluid though.

[stix]

I suspect there is some commercially available charcoal used for cooking in your area. One idea might be to smash some of it up, and use it as-is or in conjunction with paulownia. All the varieties I've come across are fairly sparky and don't burn too fast. There are sometimes additives, but most wont harm anything. I would however avoid the stuff pre-soaked in lighter fluid though.

 

Well, that's just too bloody simple it's brilliant - great idea!...

 

...Redheads BBQ Charcoal is a smokeless, chemical-free charcoal, made from 100% natural wood. It contains no binding or lighting agents and is 100% additive and chemical free.

• Clean burning, no dust/charcoal fines on food
• 100% natural wood charcoal
• Chemical free for an all natural taste

 

This seems ideal, $10 for 4 kilos already cooked and a 15minute drive away Like you said - I can try it as is, or tune it in using paulownia. A much simpler solution.

 

Thanks Mumbles.

Cheers.

 

Edited March 2, 2015 by stix

[MrB]

Use the cheapest "wood" charcoal you can find. That stuff is quite processed. It will work, but since it's leftovers from industrial processing of wood, it can contain foreign materials... metal shavings, grains of sand, that sort of stuff, mostly.

 

Of course, if this IS the cheapest stuff you got access to, i'm sure it will do well enough. It should be easy to mill, if nothing else.

B!

[stix]

Use the cheapest "wood" charcoal you can find. That stuff is quite processed. It will work, but since it's leftovers from industrial processing of wood, it can contain foreign materials... metal shavings, grains of sand, that sort of stuff, mostly.

 

Of course, if this IS the cheapest stuff you got access to, i'm sure it will do well enough. It should be easy to mill, if nothing else.

B!

 

Thanks B! - $10AU for 4 kilos is pretty cheap to me. Especially considering my source of Paulownia costs me about $10 per 200grams when fully processed!!.

 

I get my paulownia from canvas surrounds - an unlikely source that I stumbled upon. You know... those canvases that people paint on from hobby and art shops - most frames are paulownia (in Oz anyway). I tried balsa first which is as fast as paulownia, that I could tell, but much more expensive.

 

I'm only doing "small scale pyro" for "experimental" purposes, and the charcoal costs are quite small.

 

Anyway, the readheads bbq charcoal seems really good. I've made a batch of bp as per my usual method and it burns slower with heaps of sparks. Good enough in fact that I now don't see any reason to mix it with paulownia.

 

Like you suggested, it's very easy to mill, and therefore all plus plus plus from my point of view.

 

So, I will be making the same spider comp referred to in this thread, using straight readheads charcoal, and hopefully learn something from it, ie. it works really good.

 

Cheers man!

[MrB]

Just be careful with this high processed stuff. Briquettes, and extruded stuffs like these have made multiple passes through machines that can contaminate it with everything from metal shavings to nuts and bolts. In reality the biggest contaminant is sand, which is relatively harmless, but i'd be a little more careful milling BP made with this stuff, then i would be milling "wood" BBQ coals. The one in a million nail that got in to those bags is a lot easier to spot, so to speak.

 

Good luck.

B!

[schroedinger]

Stix, where are you located in oz? If there are a lot of fast growing trees down in bush that will work and surround the big lakes.

Just cut down a little bit of them on your next trip. Take a paint can with you and cook them in a camp fire or even better split them up and cook 'em in a tlud cooker.

If someone asks, you are just having a bbq or smoke them fish.

Edited March 7, 2015 by schroedinger

[stix]

Just be careful with this high processed stuff. Briquettes, and extruded stuffs like these have made multiple passes through machines that can contaminate it with everything from metal shavings to nuts and bolts. In reality the biggest contaminant is sand, which is relatively harmless, but i'd be a little more careful milling BP made with this stuff, then i would be milling "wood" BBQ coals. The one in a million nail that got in to those bags is a lot easier to spot, so to speak.

 

Good luck.

B!

 

Cheers B!... I hate it when people say "good luck" as it infers "you'll need it, because what you are doing is filled with perilous journeys that you don't understand and/or have no concept of the consequences, and even if I could, I wouldn't help you anyway... etc... etc..."

 

I appreciate your concerns, and please, always keep them coming - that's why I became a member of this forum.

 

After milling the readheads charcoal to AF, I ran a strong magnet through and all good - no metal was found. If there is any sand or other contaminants, then at this point it seems of little detriment to the test batch of black powder comp i've made - that's why I made it first before considering to introduce it to "live" comps. There are other "wood" charcoal alternatives that I've looked at but they have binders and "starter" chems built in, so this was the best choice - but there may be others out there and I'll keep looking.

 

Stix, where are you located in oz? If there are a lot of fast growing trees down in bush that will work and surround the big lakes.

Just cut down a little bit of them on your next trip. Take a paint can with you and cook them in a camp fire or even better split them up and cook 'em in a tlud cooker.

If someone asks, you are just having a bbq or smoke them fish.

 

Yep Schroed's, I am in Oz. The Black Willow (Salix nigra) is found in abundance along the river-ways about 3hrs from where I live. It is considered an "invasive weed" by environmental authorities and local governments.

 

When I first started out in this current episode of pyro activities, I studied a lot about where my charcoal would come from. Black Willow was my first choice, but after a lot of reading I came to the conclusion that it's possibly over-rated, and balsa or paulownia are more than suitable (or better) alternatives - for "fast" burning charcoals.

 

Don't forget that this thread is about "Spider stars burning too quick" so the solution is about slower burning charcoals.

 

Nevertheless, there is a lingering thing in the back of my mind to try willow as an alternative for my lift powder - It's a long holiday weekend here in Oz and if I can coerce a friend of mine to go for a trip and do some fishing, then perhaps we can bring back some willow, and fish to cook

 

If someone asks, you are just having a bbq or smoke them fish.

 

That comment makes me sad. Why the hell should I have to justify cutting a small limb off a tree??? wtf???

 

Yes, I could explain that I'm using it for smoking fish, or

• I'm ridding the environment of noxious weeds, or
• It was in the way of my favourite fishing spot, or
• My half aboriginal brother-in-law told me it was good for making spears, or
• I like making black powder and pyrotechnic devices, or
• Making pyrotechnic devices enables me to blow the world up, or/and
• I am a criminal for cutting down tree branches
• Stix is a wanker

You guys should read George Orwell's 1984 then follow it up by one of his other novels "Animal Farm"

 

btw. I'm not really a wanker.

Edited March 7, 2015 by stix

[MrB]

 

Cheers B!... I hate it when people say "good luck" as it infers "you'll need it, because what you are doing is filled with perilous journeys that you don't understand and/or have no concept of the consequences... etc..."

 

I appreciate your concerns, and please, always keep them coming - that's why I became a member of this forum.

 

You do need it. Most of us do. It's a lot of preparations, and being methodical helps a lot, but in the end it comes down to luck anyway. Even if it's only the about how strong the wind is at the altitude where the shell breaks ;- )

 

But i'll try and remember not to wish you good luck, i'll go with something else.

 

Every day is worth celebrating, you survived this far. Go out and light something, happy celebrations!

 

B!

 

(How did that work out for ya? ;- )

[stix]

 

You do need it. Most of us do. It's a lot of preparations, and being methodical helps a lot, but in the end it comes down to luck anyway. Even if it's only the about how strong the wind is at the altitude where the shell breaks ;- )

 

But i'll try and remember not to wish you good luck, i'll go with something else.

 

Every day is worth celebrating, you survived this far. Go out and light something, happy celebrations!

 

B!

 

(How did that work out for ya? ;- )

 

Much better thanks B!. Life and age has turned me very cynical

 

I won't be making any comps tonight, too many beers.

[schroedinger]

 

[*]Stix is a wanker

 

Made my day ;-)

With the bbq i was just talking about cooking the charcoal. No one will care if you cut down a tree down the bush.

[stix]

The follow-up.

 

The original Video.

Static test. 17mm (approx. 5/8th") pumped comet (spider composition - paulownia charcoal)

18.7mm long, 4 grams, approx. density 0.94g/cm3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjYd0O1MoY

 

The second test using BBQ charcoal.

Static test. 17mm (approx. 5/8th") pumped comet (spider composition - bbq charcoal)

18.7mm long, 4 grams, approx. density 0.94g/cm3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIIz2k8UUio

 

Well, a picture tells a thousand words. More than twice the burn time.

Looks like I've found a good cheap charcoal for use with charcoal streamers.

 

btw. I did shoot one from a star gun. Wonderful

 

Cheers.

 

[EDIT] That's annoying - can't seem to get the videos to embed.... Got it now.

Edited April 5, 2015 by stix

[FlaMtnBkr]

Looks good. Hot charcoal for fast, hot BP. Slow charcoal for slow, long hanging sparks. Some of the higher resin content woods make even better charcoal for long hanging sparks. And supposedly some oak makes more 'blond' colored sparks rather than orange. I haven't got around to testing this claim though.

 

There is so much that can be done with just BP chems and different types of charcoal that you could stay busy for years with just 3 or 4 chems and make great pyro with a wide variety of devices and effects.

[stix]

Looks good. Hot charcoal for fast, hot BP. Slow charcoal for slow, long hanging sparks. Some of the higher resin content woods make even better charcoal for long hanging sparks. And supposedly some oak makes more 'blond' colored sparks rather than orange. I haven't got around to testing this claim though.

 

There is so much that can be done with just BP chems and different types of charcoal that you could stay busy for years with just 3 or 4 chems and make great pyro with a wide variety of devices and effects.

 

Yep, thanks FlaMtnBkr. You're absolutely correct. I made my fist stars (Winokur #20) some 3 months back and they worked a treat - I probably should have started off with TT or another basic charcoal based comp. although I have since made TT (with paulownia) and they burn too quick as well.

 

I mistakenly thought that the success with the glitter stars using paulownia charcoal, could be used for everything with perhaps a slight mod of the ratios. Well how wrong that assumption was. A lesson learned in a "practical" sense is a lesson learned well, and experienced gained. so It's all positive as far as I'm concerned.

 

At this stage I'm hoping that I can stick with just the two charcoals. I agree that you could spend years just experimenting with different charcoals and ratios. I'll be making a batch of TT soon with the slower charcoal because the Spider comp still does burn a bit too quick for what I'd like to see. Out of the star gun it had a nice big bushy tail but burnt out just at apogee - I like to see a comet star still burning about a third of the way back down.

 

Recently I've done a batch of "Chrysanthemum of Mystery" using the slower charcoal, and just from preliminary testing it looks like it will be "too slow". So somewhere in-between there is a composition that will suit what I want. The "Stix Charcoal Streamer #1". I enjoy experimenting, so it will be fun tuning it in.

 

I like that this thread has a question posed, a good discussion, good information and finally a positive resolution.

 

Cheers.

[nater]

Accordig to Steve LaDuke, Chysanthemum of Mystery needs willow charcoal for the proper effect. (Lonely as Dr. Shimizu describes it)

[stix]

Accordig to Steve LaDuke, Chysanthemum of Mystery needs willow charcoal for the proper effect. (Lonely as Dr. Shimizu describes it)

 

So CoM needs a faster burning charcoal? Well bloody Hell!!! - I guess it does make some sense considering there is no Sulfur. Just when you think you're getting a handle on some basics..... oh poop!!.... I'm yet to test in my star gun, but I think I could be looking at the comet reaching the ground un-consumed, so I will have to test in an environment that burning embers won't cause problems.

 

Regardless of that possible issue, as I write I'm mixing up my own comp (STIX Charcoal Streamer #1) - somewhere between TT, Spider & CoM - it does have some sulfur, so I'm expecting not too slow and not too fast. Only time will tell.

 

Cheers.

Edited April 5, 2015 by stix

[Shunt]

Not to get too far off topic here, but when I watched the static test vid of the original comp with paulownia charcoal, I thought to myself: "Thats a quick and mean little bugger...would probably work great in a go-getter" Then did some research, and found indeed it is close to the formula on Skylighter's website, minus the Ti and Dextrin of course.

 

Component Percent Factor 4 oz 113.7 g
Potassium nitrate 55% 0.55 2.2 oz 62.5 g
Charcoal, airfloat 21% 0.21 0.85 oz 23.9 g
Titanium, spherical 13% 0.13 0.5 oz 14.8 g
Sulfur 9% 0.09 0.35 oz 10.2 g
Dextrin 2% 0.02 0.1 oz 2.3 g

 

Anyway, glad you have found the solution for the original issue, charcoal is for sure the most variable factor in simple pyro comps.

 

+1 For finding paulownia in art frames! Would have never have thought of that, considered myself pretty good at "dumpster diving" for pyro items, but you have again proven the old saying "one man's trash is another's treasure" to be true.

[stix]

Thanks Shunt.

 

I stumbled across the paulownia art frames by accident. Sometimes they can be yellow pine instead, so before purchasing I have to surreptitiously pick away some of the plastic packing and have a casual "sniff" or two - it's easy to tell the difference. I'm not sure if anyone has ever seen me doing this, if they did, they would think I was absolutely utterly mad.

 

I guess I could always explain it away: "As I'm sniffing the frame, all these wonderful ideas come into my head about what I'm going to paint on it" - It's just part of my eccentric temperament - being an artist an all .

 

Oh the things we do for pyro.

 

Cheers.

Edited April 6, 2015 by stix

[Arthur]

In the UK Pawlonia is being sold as environmentally friendly coffins as the trees grow so fast. SO there must be commercial growing and harvest of pawlonia somewhere. Apparently it's a mature tree in five years, rather than traditional coffin woods -Oak Pine or Mahogany which all take 100 years to maturity.

 

Go to your local hardwood place and buy their offcuts. My contact for Willow uses cricket bat offcuts from a factory.

[stix]

There's a cemetery not that far from where I live... hmmmm... interesting.

 

Oh the things we do for pyro.

Edited April 6, 2015 by stix

[Arthur]

Well I was more thinking of harvesting the waste from the timber converter before the planks are used. Tree to plank usually wastes 30% which would satisfy a small country for pyro charcoal.