braddsn Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 nt8 thank you very much for the information. It's what I wanted to hear. I am going to do this, and I believe it will work. nt8 do you use flash booster in your breaks? Just 70/30 flash? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nt8 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) nt8 thank you very much for the information. It's what I wanted to hear. I am going to do this, and I believe it will work. nt8 do you use flash booster in your breaks? Just 70/30 flash?yes, i have used hot flash for booster (7:3, 2:1), but i don't think that is the one way to make hard break. (And not always need hard break!) I have used benzoburst, KP, medium flash, and only BP for break charge already. For example the 3" egg shell (you saw in youtube) break only BP & many pasted layer of gummed tape. Edited February 16, 2015 by nt8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddsn Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Rogeryermaw you got your ears on? This may be THE solution for blind stars. Watch nt8's youtube videos. His shells are breaking hard and they all light.. every time. And it makes sense. Whenever i want a comet to light on a shell.. i dip in prime then dip in 4fa to give a rough surface. Lights every time. So imagine stars with a final layer of like 7fa rolled on em. Testing results to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeryermaw Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Yessir this thought has occurred to me but i haven't tried it yet. Mainly because there is such a fine line between shell guts that are functional versus too large. It also depends on the comp. Overkill will certainly light every star but you have to balance that with the huge trails of prime burning away before the effect lights. There are plenty of situations where this is not an issue but there has to be something we're missing or just unaware of.... Your point regarding comets is right in though. I use a very similar insurance and have been satisfied with the result Edited February 16, 2015 by rogeryermaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddsn Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 I hear ya about a trail of prime.... I do NOT want that, and that has been my only concern. But in doing a lot of reading and talking to folks about this, what I am hearing a lot is that the prime is so hot that it burns off within the first couple of milliseconds of the burst. I even read a post where a guy was using 40% of star weight in prime because he was boosting hard with flash, and there was still no sign of prime burning off in the air. I don't know all of the in's and out's. When I burn a star sitting on the ground, I can distinctly see the prime burn off (about a full second) then the comp lights. But in the air, I don't see my prime burning, even when I go back and watch the vids in slow motion. As for shell guts being too large, you might have the wrong image in your head. I am talking about VERY VERY fine bp granules... like 60 mesh, that might only add 1/2mm or less to star diameter. I also found some random pictures of stars up close here and there, and most of them had a rough surface. It makes sense to me. I have a map torch that I use for pyro, and when I light it and run it quickly by a star on the ground, it usually doesn't light. I have to hold the flame on the star for just a blink and then it lights. But when I run that torch by one of my comets that is primed with the 4fa on top, it lights every time. There is a difference. And I don't know about you but, whenever I get my prime to light, the prime lights the comp EVERY time. Thus, getting my prime to light is the 'issue' when I have a blind star. I am rambling now. All I know is that we will figure it out. I want 100% ignition with NO ugly fallout or artifact. I will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebkessinger Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Shell construction and / or burst booster have a decent amount to do with ignition also. A lot of people use 1 layer of what they call monocapa prime. Some just use scratch mix.. I have great luck with it. Good luck and keep us posted!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddsn Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Which do you use caleb? Monocapa or scratch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nt8 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I have never used "scratch mix", neither monocapa. (but i will try monocapa). I use relatively small stars in 75mm color shells, because the peony seems good if contain many stars. This stars are cutted, so enough the light prime. In 100mm and larger shell I use rolled star mainly, with medium thick prime, with rough surface, fast final prime. The fast prime don't leave long&large trail. (except one shell in NYE, you will find it, these stars left good visible prime trail. Here I put extra not too fine charcoal to final prime)True, the fast prime also leave weak trail, what a bit visible. BUT, if the japanese grandmasters can afford the relatively strong prime trail, then I don't worry about it!Let us look at the first some color peony in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu_GO0hUd0s. Good visible the prime trail, before the color flash up!In my opinion: If the surface of non primed stars is smooth, the surface of final prime must be rough. Edited February 17, 2015 by nt8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebkessinger Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I was having trouble lighting a bunch of my different batches of just plain charcoal rolled stars. So one night I made a large bucket of scratch mix and primed them all with it. I haven't had one lick of trouble since and have broken them harder than ever before. using a good amount of spanish booster and erc bp rice hulls for burst. I like how clean the burst area turns out with the stars not burning into the glitters until out of that area also. You can't see the delay before they start to release the glitter just the fact that there is no glittery trash in the center of the burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Monocapa is just so nice to use, Composition 24.6 Potassium perchlorate 31.1 Potassium nitrate 11.5 Charcoal 4.1 Red gum 4.9 Sulfur 7.4 Iron Oxide (Black) 12.3 Fine Magnalium 4.1 Dextrin or Phenolic Resin depending on the comp Edited February 18, 2015 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Dag, are you using this prime on color stars ? and how about hard breaks? are you using a step prime method, in addition to this prime? Just thought Id throw in a few Q's that may arise; ... I know everyone has their favorite prime sys. I find that simple seems to take the cake. Even after several years of rolling stars and building shells...., I still am learning so much , and experimenting with some of the great ideas shared. We are blessed to have such talent in our pyro community , and not stingily held , but shared . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddsn Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Dagabu, so since this is a one coat system, how thick do you apply? 30% of shell weight? And has this prime been 100% effective for all of your colors? And what type of charcoal are you using? I am certainly open to trying it. The problem I have been having is getting my outer prime layer to ignite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddsn Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Pyrojig, how do you prime your color stars? I know you said something about glitter. Do you prime all of them with glitter? If so, which formula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I do a similar method to Ned Gorskys . I use a hot prime (perch based 1st coatabout 1/2mm to 1mm) and hot bp prime( has magnal or Si in itabout 1 mm) as a duel prime sys for hard breaks. Glitter can be used in place of hot bp( being about the same concept bp with metal in it) .Any glitter will work for that matter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enanthate Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Has anyone tried milling a batch of stars after rolling the final layer? This is without milling media of course. I did this a year ago with one batch that didn't ignite (very smooth and hard surface), and after 2 hours of milling they came out gray-ish with a nicely scratched surface. Only with a lightertest I noticed a huge difference, and in a shell they all ignited. I'm not saying it is ideal or anything, I just found it interesting so I threw it out here. Brad, as you and Mumbles discussed I also believe the finer grains from liftpowder will help indeed. I separated the fines from my liftpowder with a 50 mesh screen a couple of weeks ago, but haven't tested it yet. Will be back with an update some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Dag, are you using this prime on color stars ? and how about hard breaks? are you using a step prime method, in addition to this prime? Just thought Id throw in a few Q's that may arise; ... I know everyone has their favorite prime sys. I find that simple seems to take the cake. Even after several years of rolling stars and building shells...., I still am learning so much , and experimenting with some of the great ideas shared. We are blessed to have such talent in our pyro community , and not stingily held , but shared . Dagabu, so since this is a one coat system, how thick do you apply? 30% of shell weight? And has this prime been 100% effective for all of your colors? And what type of charcoal are you using? I am certainly open to trying it. The problem I have been having is getting my outer prime layer to ignite. I last used it in 2012, it was just called Spanish Prime by the guy that shared the comp with me from Tarragona Spain , I was told to apply it as a slurry and to only use what the pile would take to get completely covered, no more then immediately add enough of the dry comp (same stuff, no water) to coat the stars. A 2000g batch used less than 50g of monocapa to make a paper thin coat this way. I honestly only used this on three types of stars before the burn so I didn't get to try all the stars I wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nt8 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Has anyone tried milling a batch of stars after rolling the final layer? This is without milling media of course. I did this a year ago with one batch that didn't ignite (very smooth and hard surface), and after 2 hours of milling they came out gray-ish with a nicely scratched surface. Only with a lightertest I noticed a huge difference, and in a shell they all ignited. I'm not saying it is ideal or anything, I just found it interesting so I threw it out here. Brad, as you and Mumbles discussed I also believe the finer grains from liftpowder will help indeed. I separated the fines from my liftpowder with a 50 mesh screen a couple of weeks ago, but haven't tested it yet. Will be back with an update some day. put primed stars to bowl - spray them relatively lot of water - sprinkle them meal BP (or maybe scratch mix) with dex. - mix well, with hand - drying fast: scratched surface final prime layer. Edited February 20, 2015 by nt8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddsn Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Enanthate those fine grains of bp work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Some authors( Shimizu) suggest using wood-meal or coarse ch. to get the burst ignition to stay on the surface of the star, The flame gets trapped in the irregular ruff surface of the star. This is why some use green mix or Si laced comps, to create a slag on the star that holds ignition better and longer . I have rolled stars that had high ch content like Ti +TT streamers that turned to raspberries . The ignition on these stars was superb. I broke some shells so hard that I would swear the stars should crush. And had 100% ignition . This rolling "raspberry stars " are considered a nuisance to some and ugly, but they light well due to this surface area factor. Sorry for going off on a tangent ....but it does relate in a way to the priming Q's] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I last used it in 2012, it was just called Spanish Prime by the guy that shared the comp with me from Tarragona Spain , I was told to apply it as a slurry and to only use what the pile would take to get completely covered, no more then immediately add enough of the dry comp (same stuff, no water) to coat the stars. A 2000g batch used less than 50g of monocapa to make a paper thin coat this way. I honestly only used this on three types of stars before the burn so I didn't get to try all the stars I wanted to. Are you talking about JOPETES? Because he released the Spanish formulas in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Are you talking about JOPETES? Because he released the Spanish formulas in 2011. I am pretty sure Jopetes didn't design Spanish Prime that for whatever reason in nearly identical to Jopetes comp. It was on Passfire more than a few times and is used in Tarragona Spain by many groups. I am happy he brought it here to us and to other places to share it but it is rather traditional over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts