pudidotdk Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 I buy my sulfur in jars of 600 g for 8-9$It's, well excellent for BP however I have really no idea how pure it is.It's in a fine powdered state, so I don't have to worry about grinding.
andyboy Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 As for your inconsistensy problems I would recommend that you ball-mill or atleast break up and mix all your charcoal in the batch before weighing it out. Some parts of the retort will get hotter (the outsides, naturally) and therefor more volatiles will burn of from those sections, there will also be more ash content in those sections which will make the BP slower.
frogy Posted September 29, 2007 Posted September 29, 2007 I just made some Apple charcoal... It was cooked in less than an hour (wasn't paying attention, but something like 30 minutes) and it cooled within about 2 minutes of spraying cold water on the tin can... Haven't ground up yet or made lift, but currently preparing... I'll tell you how it came out... I think it's a red delicious apple tree, but I'll have to check
mormanman Posted September 29, 2007 Posted September 29, 2007 Frogy. You need to hurry up . Tell us how it goes. And hurry.
frogy Posted September 29, 2007 Posted September 29, 2007 My mills pretty optimized, so it should only take about 3 hours for pulverone grade meal powder... But then it will take about a day to dry... I just put it on the mill about 10 minutes ago... I ran out of sulfur so I had to pulverize some in a meat grinder and with a hammer because I have agricultural sulfur pellets (disks) Also I had to grind up the charcoal in a food processor... I have 148g KNO3, 28g Apple Charcoal, and 24g Sulfur in the mill... Hope it's fast I have about 39 grams of Apple Charcoal left... EDIT: Just tested meal... it's literally the slowest BP I've ever seen... I'm positive I got the ratios right because I can remember 17.2 (empty container), 45.2 (charcoal), 51.2 (6g sulfur [noticed I was out and made more], 69.8 (added another 18 grams of sulfur = 24g), and then I added 148 grams of KNO3 It burns extremely slow, but it creates extremeeeely bright flames... it hurts my eyes a lot
mormanman Posted September 30, 2007 Posted September 30, 2007 My mills pretty optimized, so it should only take about 3 hours for pulverone grade meal powder... But then it will take about a day to dry... I just put it on the mill about 10 minutes ago... I ran out of sulfur so I had to pulverize some in a meat grinder and with a hammer because I have agricultural sulfur pellets (disks) Also I had to grind up the charcoal in a food processor... I have 148g KNO3, 28g Apple Charcoal, and 24g Sulfur in the mill... Hope it's fast I have about 39 grams of Apple Charcoal left... EDIT: Just tested meal... it's literally the slowest BP I've ever seen... I'm positive I got the ratios right because I can remember 17.2 (empty container), 45.2 (charcoal), 51.2 (6g sulfur [noticed I was out and made more], 69.8 (added another 18 grams of sulfur = 24g), and then I added 148 grams of KNO3 It burns extremely slow, but it creates extremeeeely bright flames... it hurts my eyes a lot It sounds good for stars.
frogy Posted September 30, 2007 Posted September 30, 2007 I made a 3/4" by 3.75" fountain with it and it did look very nice... I don't really have enough KNO3 to waste on testing another batch at the moment to confirm that whatever kind of apple tree sucks, but I may because it makes some nice sparks... The fountain had about 0.2 grams of perchlorate flash w\ Mg at the end which looked great... The fountain burned for about 15 seconds with a 4-8 foot flame... I could tell it looked nice even without my contacts in... (not sure on the 15 second time), but it was over a 4 foot flame
Mumbles Posted September 30, 2007 Author Posted September 30, 2007 Is that the Lift specific PGI formula you used for blackpowder? It certainly isn't 75-15-10.
frogy Posted September 30, 2007 Posted September 30, 2007 I have 148g KNO3, 28g Apple Charcoal, and 24g Sulfur in the mill... Hope it's fast I have about 39 grams of Apple Charcoal left... 148, 28, 24 / 2 = 74, 14, 12... Is that not the PGI lift formula?
andyboy Posted September 30, 2007 Posted September 30, 2007 I have 148g KNO3, 28g Apple Charcoal, and 24g Sulfur in the mill... Hope it's fast I have about 39 grams of Apple Charcoal left...148, 28, 24 / 2 = 74, 14, 12... Is that not the PGI lift formula?It is, and that is what he asked, I think you might have misread his post. Read it again and think that he is asking you if it is the PGI lift formula, because it is not the standard 75/15/10 BP.
Mumbles Posted September 30, 2007 Author Posted September 30, 2007 Exactly. I was asking if the formula you used was in fact the PGI lift formula. I had to run to get to a review session otherwise I would have just looked it up. Can you really tell a noticable difference when using that formula over the standard 75/15/10?
psyco_1322 Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 First post of the 4th page I gave the PGI lift formula, and as far as I can tell, by burn rate, there isnt much difference between it and standard. I just think its a more tuned formula, not just a general formula, it may make some difference in a really large shell with the right type of charcoal, but I dont know.
frogy Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 This was a new kind of charcoal I was testing... I'm gonna have to say this apple charcoal is terrible or else I messed up my ratios... I'm going to make another 200 gram batch and if it turns out the same I'll use it as a core burning fuel or fountain fuel because it makes beautiful flames\sparks... I do think it is the charcoal that is junk though because I got something like 60 grams from less than a coffee can full of wood... Balsa is something like 20 grams from an entire paintcan full... Who knows though because this is the lightest color black powder I've seen... it's much more gray than black... looks even lighter than when I tried milling 8 hours in my optimized mill which would be something like a few days in a tumbler mill...
NightHawkInLight Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 I'm quite surprised that your apple charcoal is that slow. I happen to know that apple wood is the hottest burning common wood (I've worked several years doing tree removal and firewood delivery)It's interesting that whatever makes it so hot would slow black powder. I think the only answer would be that you either messed up the charcoal somehow or maybe it is over saturated in oils.Anyway for my black powder recently I have tried white pine. If you have read my charcoal post you know that I burn it openly in bulk and wash the ash off the product. With pine this does a good job of removing the resin and leaving a very light charcoal almost similar to a burnt marshmallow. It has yielded a fairly fast result. Here's a video of ~.3g meal on a spoon:
frogy Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 My apple charcoal got done cooking in about 30 minutes which is very fast... Compared to my pine charcoal that I estimate takes 2 hours... (Don't remember, but much longer)... You made that Pine BP in a tumbler mill? how long did you mill it? For .3g my 3 hour white pine is about the same... I'll go to my other house today and try another batch of Apple lift though..
NightHawkInLight Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 My milling time is terrible, I have used just a toy rock tumbler for two years and it's time for a replacement. That BP took about 12 hours...Once I get a new mill maybe I'll stick this one out in the middle of nowhere in a hole and use it to mill H3. If it works without incident I just got some high quality H3, if not I got a new mill anyway...
asilentbob Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 You don't mill chlorate compositions. Period. You don't mill perchlorate compositions either unless its a special situation.
Mumbles Posted October 2, 2007 Author Posted October 2, 2007 H3 is plenty hot and powerful just hand mixed. Ball mill the charcoal and chlorate separately if you must, but definatly don't do them combined. It is illadvised in general to mill compositions. The only reason you can get away with milling BP and BP like mixtures is due to the extreme insensitivity of them. H3 does not afford this same luxury.
NightHawkInLight Posted October 2, 2007 Posted October 2, 2007 I realize that. However H3 was originally ball milled, at least so I've read. You'll notice that in my post I expect it would probably end in an explosion.I have not posted much here and I know that not many of you know me or my safety procedures. Don't think I am new to dangerous experiments, or as to what steps need to be taken to avoid damage to people or property.I see that it was reckless of me to post a process that will likely end in an explosion on a forum that anyone may read. Please don't think I would ever do such a thing without putting a lot of thought into safety and the isolation of the experiment.My comment was speculation as to something I would like to try, not something I am going to do. A simple curiosity that will probably never materialize.
frogy Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 Here to confirm that my apple charcoal is terrible... People do get decent meal from hardwood charcoal in 3 hours don't they? I have an optimized mill that makes very fast meal in about 3 hours with white pine, but I've never used hardwood charcoal or lump... I confirmed multiple times before milling that I was indeed making a 200 gram batch of 74:14:12 lift... The apple branches were from a Red Delicious apple tree and were cooked retort style... all branches were consistantly cooked for about 30 minutes with almost no ash (not even enough for it to come off the wood)... Now I have about 370 grams of slowwww meal.. Might wood good for core burners, but theres on thing it definately works for... fountains... I made some fountains with just straight apple meal and they make extremely bright flames that fly about 6 feet into the air with a 3/4" ID tube and about a 11/64" nozzle...
Mumbles Posted October 3, 2007 Author Posted October 3, 2007 You might want to try milling longer. Apple may be a bit harder. I find that depending on the wood, even of known good varieties, some take longer to get to optimum speed. Willow takes around 6hrs in my mill while maple takes 8 or 9.
NightHawkInLight Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 I have also noticed even in my small slow mill that hardwoods take much longer than my soft pine.In the meantime your slow meal can be sped up significantly by simple screen granulating. Just wet it and push it through. It won't be the best bp to be put to flame, but it should be suitable for lift. That method has worked for me countless times, and for several others I have recommended it to.
crazyboy25 Posted October 3, 2007 Posted October 3, 2007 to get anything useable from hardwood airfloat i usually mill for 32 hours.
mormanman Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Just to point this out. If anyone is in woodshop ask your teacher if you can have some wood. I got some Ash (the wood) and that stuff makes fast bp. I compared it to my Pecan and it blew it away.BTW, I read somewhere that Bamboo made good charcoal. My experiment says otherwise.
WarezWally Posted December 18, 2007 Posted December 18, 2007 Poplar and balsa Both much better than willow, poplar is easy to find and even easier to break off a few branches. Balsa not so easy to find but buy it as sawdust and press it. Both make shit hot BP
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