oskarchem Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 Nice, but the problem with BBQ charcoal is that you never know what wood is inside. So you won't always get the same results.
pyrogeorge Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) Granulated Black Powder from grapevine charcoal http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=MiB1449T7wo Edited October 18, 2008 by pipipi
Mumbles Posted October 17, 2008 Author Posted October 17, 2008 I know of one person who tested it. Like stated, it out preformed everything he had ever tried before. The problem is that the trees are kinda hard to come by in the wild. Normally people are not fond of you cutting them down either, as they bear delicious fruit. You will get the same results out of commercial charcoal if you crush up a bag at a time. 9 pounds will last a very long time, but it is best done with a meat grinder to make it less work for you. People like Alder charcoal because it is available commercially to the meat smoking crowd. Some people just don't have the time or patience to cook their own. Maple is also very good. Perhaps the Alder around you is different than the main suppliers in the US. I want to say you're from Australia, but I'm not sure.
ExplosiveCoek Posted October 18, 2008 Posted October 18, 2008 I have a tree from that kind in my backyard, so that's not the problem . Normally I was just smashing the charcoal up in smaller pieces en then I just put it in my mill for 6 hours or something, sieve the whole stuff so pick out the real small pieces/airfloat stuff and mill the other stuff any longer. I'm from The Netherlands but I haven't seen any alder charcoal in the stores for so far, guess I'll have to cook mine then. I have these types of wood to my 'collection': WillowPlum and probably a lot more since there is a small forest nearby .
Bonny Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 I have these types of wood to my 'collection': WillowPlum and probably a lot more since there is a small forest nearby . Just use the willow...but the plum might turn out good too, do a test and let us know. I'm sure you can find some sort of pine and/or spruce too.
buzzbomb Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I live in Australia and have recently found a supplier of Balsa and Grapevine wood and charcoal,and after milling a batch of Balsa BP must say its the fastest powder i have made yet and i still have to granulate it. It is very light and fluffy, i had to make a smaller than usual batch as the balsa charcoal is very light and fluffy and wouldnt all fit into my mill jar in the normal quantity.
Tiro Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I have a tree from that kind in my backyard, so that's not the problem . Normally I was just smashing the charcoal up in smaller pieces en then I just put it in my mill for 6 hours or something, sieve the whole stuff so pick out the real small pieces/airfloat stuff and mill the other stuff any longer. I'm from The Netherlands but I haven't seen any alder charcoal in the stores for so far, guess I'll have to cook mine then. I have these types of wood to my 'collection': WillowPlum and probably a lot more since there is a small forest nearby . Almost every tree in Holland are Poplars or Willows. So that shouldn't be a problem ExplosiveCoek...
TurboSnail Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 Woho! I managed to read the whole 16 page tread at once Much interesting stuff in here I have a few toughs about some of the stuff I found here: 1. Wath happened to the "10 Million $" charcoal made out of old money? I do not remember the username of the person that talked about making this exotic coal, i might ass vell have missed some poast concerning the $-BP's performance? 2. Newspaper charcoal is definitely interesting to hear about, I did not think it was that powerful, Pretty sure it contains a few % bentonite clay, probably below 5% in the paper, but when making charcoal out of the paper reducing the starting wheight to 1/3 or something thath would mean increasing the clay % about 3 times wuldent it? I am thinking thath clay is hevier than water and coal is lighter, so how about trying to separate out the clay to get a more reliable and repeatable source of high power coal at the right price? 3. Wolatile residues in the charcoal defenitely playes a role in the final usfullness of charcoal, so how about increasing it? I am thinking of taking a batch of coal and puting half of it in hot ethanol then draining it off, then pouring the ethanol solution on the other half of the coal leting it evaporate while ocationaly stiring. This way we will get one charcoal deprived of ethanol soluble volatiles and some other coal with the doubled amount af nice volatile combustibles. I think it would be a pretty intresting experiment to do, do anyone knowe if something similar to this already is in the literature somewhere? Thank you all for a nice informative forum >>>_@/"
Mumbles Posted December 8, 2008 Author Posted December 8, 2008 I've heard hit and miss results with newspaper charcoal. Given it's fineness it may be an acceptable substitute for lampblack or the like. It would certainly be nicer to work with. I think the cooking method has a lot to do with how the product comes out. If it's placed into tight rolls in the retort, it seems a better product is obtained as opposed to throwing it in loose. There is a finite amount of oxygen present in the retort, and that will enter. I think the lower surface area of tight rolls may produce less ash, and thus a better product. I know of no such experiments with the volatile oils of charcoal. My personal opinions on the matter is that the volatiles play a far less significant role than some think. I believe it's more strongly dominated by density, pore structure, ash content, and degree of graphitization. That's of course only my opinion, and backed up by few actual experiments. Ash content plays a significant role. I think you'd be better off treating it with acid in my opinion than enriching oils.
Swede Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 "Charcoal" is interesting. We tend to think of it as a chemical. A more appropriate view is that it is like a wine, all sorts of very subtle components that either make it great for BP, or absolute crap. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same tree species, grown in two DIFFERENT locations, charcoaled in the exact same way, making two different charcoals. Like a Merlot from California vs a Merlot from Florida. While chasing the ultimate BP can be a fun endeavor all by itself (I know all about obsessive behavior!), for the average hobbyist, buy some red alder charcoal from the U.S. guy, or make your own in a manner that is repeatable. If I couldn't buy charcoal, I'd probably make mine from quality poplar or pine lumber, knot free, from a hardware/lumber store. More expensive, but you'll get consistency, and that's important.
rev.redneck Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 I like using pine saw dust for rockets, its free. I have acces to many kinds its of wood right behind my home. my neighbors have willow, it always looses branches, They cut one down last year, i got some logs and in just a week the logs were growing, i planted two (logs!) and they rooted. The rest i Split to stop growth so they would dry. I wonder if buckeye works well? I enjoy making charcoal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsW5huv8Rh0simple.
tentacles Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 rev: That's hilarious! Plant a log indeed.
BPinthemorning Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 The $ bp was me Turbo. Turned out to be good stuff (I forgot to post a conclusion). Somewhere between weeping willow and black willow. Seeing as its pretty expensive, you don't actualy get much charcoal, and black willow is so much easier to get, I don't recomend it, but it was fun, and easy. Not a bad day really.
50AE Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) It's a shame to cut plum tree. It's mentioned that the suitable one is "Prunus Domestica", and it makes delicious fruit. If someone sees you cutting it, he'll think you're crazy. Mumbles, you're right. I've been lucky and getting awesome newspaper in France, but when got back to Bulgaria, the newspaper was really shit. I don't know what they put in there (clay you mentioned ?), but it burned worse than my previous hard wood black powders. Edited December 10, 2008 by 50AE
tentacles Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 50AE: It's quite normal to prune fruit trees, it will make them produce more fruit.. The proper time, of course, is necessary for this.. fall or early spring. We actually killed our old apple tree by pruning it - it grew so much fruit the next year the branches started to break! Bushels and bushels of apples... rotting on the ground.
tentacles Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Hoo-haa! Double postin yet again... I made up some tamarack charcoal today in my fireplace since I had it going.. two coffee cans full, 12oz of charcoal total. Posting this here instead of in the BP thread because I doubt I'll bother making any BP with it - not with that huge bag of red alder that I'm very happy with for lift. I'll probably try and keep up with making more charcoal every time I light the fireplace, hopefully I can get 10-15lb of this made by spring. The jet of flame out the 1/4" hole was HUGE. It roared loud enough to hear it from the other end of the house. For a lid I just doubled up some regular foil and held it on with a bit of SS wire twisted tight. The foil didn't fare so good if you let it heat up too much so I took a bit of care to keep it out of the flame.. Each batch took about 45 minutes. I need to get my hands on a nice 5qt dutch oven!
Flying dutchman Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 My black powder,from grapevine charcoal, milled and granulated with 5% dextrin.http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9rmKOiScH6Y
dagabu Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I have been making my own spolletes (time fuse) since the 80s and find that the type of charcoal makes the biggest difference in burn time that anything else when the recipe stays the same. While I agree that willow and grape vine (concord up here in the north) are aggressive, I found that Yellow Pine that grows in abundance is cheap, has plenty of power and is consistent from batch to batch. Nothing beats Willow for 80 mesh sparks, balsa is expensive and grape vine varies wildly from green growth to old growth (2" and up) so keeping the same diameter is necessary. I will have to disagree with one comment about the more holes the better, a single 1/4" hole in the center will let out all of the gases without blowing the lid. To many holes introduces air, that means ash. Ash does NOT burn and only slows the comp down. Also, don't open the can until it is cool. It doesn't take long so be patient. The charcoal will ignite and burn when hot and introduced to air. Here is a pic of my cooker:
derekroolz Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Yes, you cook newspaper like you would wood. Yes, you remove the bark, and drying the wood is not neccesary, though I usually have it sitting around enough that it does dry. As far as lumber, I don't see a problem as long as it isn't treated. Treating could cause some problems, or mess up the charcoal, or do something to the cooking container. Couldn't the wood potentionally explode if it had enough moisture in there and was heated at a fast rate?
derekroolz Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I have been making my own spolletes (time fuse) since the 80s and find that the type of charcoal makes the biggest difference in burn time that anything else when the recipe stays the same. While I agree that willow and grape vine (concord up here in the north) are aggressive, I found that Yellow Pine that grows in abundance is cheap, has plenty of power and is consistent from batch to batch. Nothing beats Willow for 80 mesh sparks, balsa is expensive and grape vine varies wildly from green growth to old growth (2" and up) so keeping the same diameter is necessary. I will have to disagree with one comment about the more holes the better, a single 1/4" hole in the center will let out all of the gases without blowing the lid. To many holes introduces air, that means ash. Ash does NOT burn and only slows the comp down. Also, don't open the can until it is cool. It doesn't take long so be patient. The charcoal will ignite and burn when hot and introduced to air. Here is a pic of my cooker: Ok there is a faster way of colling, BUT it is potentionally dangerous. If you dip it in water it cuts the cooling time by alot but make sure the water is above luke warm but not hot. Otherwise the can can incave from such a rapid colling bringing potentional hazodr.
TheSidewinder Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I believe you could get a small steam "explosion", exactly like a campfire does when it crackles and throws burning embers around. But from what I've heard and read you should start with thoroughly dried (seasoned) wood anyway. Most "cooking" pictures I've seen use small diameter stock as well, so a "snap, crackle, pop" from one likely wouldn't do much except rattle the cooking container a bit. I wouldn't start with green wood anyway, since the cooking time would be a *lot* longer, and cost you much more in whatever fuel you choose to cook it with.
Bonny Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I simply cook mine and then leave overnight to cool. If done in the daytime, go work on something else while the charcoal cools off. A bit of simple planning should account for the cooling time and avoid a situation where you would actually need the charcoal in such a hurry as to warrant faster cooling methods.
Ralph Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) i have many of these woods (plum, willow, balsa,yucca stem, pine,papirus (others take a little more effort to get)) that are high performance and it is charcoal making season for me so if you would like i can do some testing i was thinking of ramming meal into 1/4" x2" tubes and timing the burn though i have some questions before i do the testing. i know that the same mass of balsa bp is not going to fit as plum and should i do a complete ram using as much powder as it takes or should I do a certain weight and should i do meal or green mix (im leaning to wards green mix as a longer burn time means more pronounced time differences) also if it is of interest i can test other woods to see the burn speed like malle, juniper, pine cone and pistachio not sure were these belong but cherry sour cherry and apricot (slow growing so i think so burning) Edited July 11, 2009 by Ralph
Bananaphone69 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't pine cone the equivalent to pine bark? Seems to me that that would be the stuff you would want to avoid.
Mumbles Posted July 11, 2009 Author Posted July 11, 2009 No one uses green meal for anything performanced based(except maybe core burning rockets), so I don't see how it would be of any use. Testing in a non-finished state wont tell you anything, as results could change drastically from processing. It'd be most useful to test the powder in a way you plan to use it. If you're looking for good spolette timing, your way is good. Although, you'll never be able to completely fill the tube. Try 1" powder length, it will be much more manageable, and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches from splitting tubes. I'd definitely do this by length, not mass. If you want to use it to lift shells, then granulate it, and lift test shells. There are more factors than just burn speed with regards to performance.
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