What did you do today in pyro?

[lloyd]

Ok... That "chemical avoidance" issue again. WHY would you "rather avoid (antimony trisulfide) for now"?

 

Lloyd

[OldMarine]

I was fairly terrified of barium and k-dichromate until someone pointed out that in my job I deal with even more dangerous chems most every day without dying. Same PPE works in this hobby.

[nater]

I like D1, and I make it often because it is cheap and easy. However, in general glitters made with Antimony are a step above.

 

For the most part, hazardous chemicals with pyro can be safely dealt with by wearing gloves, a respirator, working in a well ventilated area and practicing good hygiene when you are done. I think the common solvents pose a greater hazard than many of the individual chemicals.

[BlueComet24]

I guess any new chemical that is toxic makes me a bit worried. The nastiest chems I've worked with as of yet are KClO4 and Eckart 5413. I have a P95 respirator and latex gloves, but no lab coat (not sure if I should get one, but I don't really think I need one). My workshop is basically in my main living space. For aluminum and perchlorate I either work outside or in the garage. One of my concerns is that, after mixing comps in the garage, I could create toxic dusts in my house while assembling shells. I suppose I could cut and prime stars in the garage and let them dry, so that the only thing exposed is a BP-based prime. My usual PPE while doing general pyro stuff is a dust mask and goggles.

I thought that antimony was a cumulative poison like lead. Is it not? I'm not very familiar with it.

Thank you for your advice.

[Mumbles]

I read about people fearing antimony trisulfide all the time. It's really not very toxic relatively speaking. Additional, and probably most importantly it's incredibly dense. It really does not float around, or pose any real risk of accidental inhalation or ingestion unless you're being negligent. Gloves, respirator, and washing up will keep you in good shape. It's sort of like going to the beach and worrying about getting silicosis.

[nater]

You really shouldn't be assembling shells in your living space. That opens up a whole new set of hazards.

[BlueComet24]

Unfortunately my garage is too cold and messy and I haven't got a shed. If it makes it any better, I only make 1.75" shells so far. I assemble salute shells in the garage but paste them inside.

Mumbles, that makes sense and helps me feel better. Thanks.

[nater]

No, that does not make it any better. You should never bring and build explosives in your living space. If it is too cold to work outdoors, then wait.

[lloyd]

Blue,

You REALLY need to re-think your situation. Even making stuff in an attached garage is a big No-No!

 

Lloyd

[Ubehage]

Unfortunately my garage is too cold and messy and I haven't got a shed. If it makes it any better, I only make 1.75" shells so far. I assemble salute shells in the garage but paste them inside.

Mumbles, that makes sense and helps me feel better. Thanks.

I also have my workshop in a garage. My garage is seperated from the house though, I don't know if yours are.

My garage is also a messy place. Like, seriously!

 

To be honest, if I have an accident out there, I will be in really bad luck. I do have a pathway, a run-path directly to the door. But there's so much shit and chemicals around me, that I'm not sure it will help me any bit.

But, that being said, it's still much better than bringing it inside the house.

You can't afford a new house. Or a new wife.

[BlueComet24]

My garage is part of my house. My desk where I work on pyro stuff is not right next to where sit to do homework (which is where I spend a good portion of my time). It's sort of in the same room as my main living space, although not real close to my non-pyro desk. It's also as far away from my bedroom as possible. I thought that there are other pyros who work in their house or garage, are there not?

With this Western Washington weather, working outside is not a possibility for most of the year. Waiting to work outside would essentially mean mostly stopping doing pyrotechnics, which I'm not willing to do. My garage would be the closest to working outside that I could do.

It sounds like your main concern is accidental ignition, right? While I'm sure there is always an inherent danger with pyrotechnics, I don't think there's as much of a hazard as if I were working with more reactive materials (i.e. Mg or KClO3). Nothing that I make should have any chance of going off during storage, as most of what I make is made of BP-type chems. It would seem that the only time my devices could ignite accidentally is during material processing and firework construction, in which case I would be near the fireworks, so workshop location wouldn't seem to matter.

I realize that my situation is far from ideal, but I try to stay safe within the bounds of reason. I'm open to suggestions, but please know that I don't have many options as far as where to work.

[lloyd]

Blue,

 

You are NOT "staying safe within the bounds of reason."

 

If you own, why can you NOT put up a simple lawn shed away from the house?

 

If you rent, you have no right to be endangering another's property.

 

If you own, you may not for long! If you have a fire, and the insurance company finds out that you were making fireworks in the home (even if they did NOT start the fire), you'll likely forego being paid for your loss.

 

Buy a tent!

 

LLoyd

[nater]

I know of more pyros firsthand who have been injured working with BP or BP based comps than who have been injured by more energetic mixtures.

 

You really need to assess your practices. Don't think of yourself, but also of your family and your neighbors. Your activities are putting them as risk as well. A flash fire from BP or a bucket of stars will spread fast. Fire doubles in size every minute. Are you willing to risk burning your house down over an entertaining hobby?

 

For urban dwellers, the various pyro guilds are the single best way to enjoy this hobby legally and as safely as possible. Many items can be built and fired the same day or same weekend. All you have to do is show up with your materials and have fun.

[Ubehage]

Nothing that I make should have any chance of going off during storage

When you write that, it tells me that you have not understood the dangers of pyro.

BP can go off, just "because". It rarely ever happens, but it can. And that being one of the absolute safest compositions!

 

If you truly believe that if you do things right, nothing will ever happen, then you are in for a surprise some day. Maybe a BIG surprise.

 

Making pyro is a well-calculated risk:

Whenever you make something pyro, you are essentially playing a game of gambling with 3 things on the line:

- Your health,

- Your life,

- Your workshop.

 

Please remember this, and don't bet anymore than you can afford to lose.

[BlueComet24]

Ubehage, I understand that pyrotechnics is one of the few hobbies where one can do little or nothing wrong and still be killed, and that BP is far from being without its hazards. However, I've never heard of a case of BP going off in assembled shells that were properly stored and that did not have contamination or incompatibilites with other chemicals in the shell. Of course, there have been cases of BP going off during handling, such as the infamous staple incident. If you know of an article on BP going off in storage and without outside initiation, I'd be interested in reading it.

 

Lloyd, a tent is a great idea! I'll think about building a shed (not sure how my dad would feel about that), but for now I think I might just put up a tent for shell construction. I could still handle less-explosive comps (i.e. fountain and smoke mixes) indoors but more explosive ones outdoors. The weather around here tends to be really wet except for in the summer, so would you recommend a camping-type tent or just a canopy? One concern I would have with a camping tent is static, but I have a can of static spray. Would this be enough to eliminate static even when the air is dry?

What do you recommend I move outdoors? Off the top of my head I would guess drying stars and BP (cutting, pumping, or ricing damp comp should be okay indoors) and assembling shells. I like to make 1/4" rammed BP rockets, which also should maybe be done outdoors. I don't think I could really leave any chemicals or mixed comps outside for prolonged periods of time, because they would get ruined by water. I also might have to finish drying things inside, but I could cover them to protect from sparks. Let me know what you think.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[nater]

If you attend a building event, you will see many pyros working under an EZ-Up type tent with a folding table. This is a great way to build outside. A camping tent would not have proper egress should something go wrong.

 

There is no safe comp to work with indoor, inside your house. Not fountains, not smokes, not stars, not at any point during their construction. Keep all activities involving live composition outdoors or in a safe shop which is not in, attached to or near a dwelling.

[Mumbles]

Trust me, working indoors is not worth it. I don't know if you've seen the following thread, but I speak from experience. The end bill was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Far more than a popup tent, a picnic table, and an extension cord.

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/5154-mumbles-hurt-in-accident/

 

I was being stupid, and working indoors. I wont pretend like I didn't start indoors, as I'm sure several others have, but it doesn't mean it is a good idea. I hadn't done anything inside in about 6 years, but due to windy conditions and an impending move I make the careless decision to empty my ball mill indoors. I had all the best intentions to get rid of all live material before leaving, but a perfect storm of conditions, poor decisions, young man immortality, self-imposed deadline, and a freak accident all aligned to very disastrous results.

[OldMarine]

Hey Mumbles, your and Dave's experience is the main reason I started the other thread on winter activities.

 

Blue, I've read of and seen the damage and death that come with inviting damage and death to come on in. Death will come in uninvited eventually but you can do a lot to hinder him.

Not doing pyro in the house is a start.

[BlueComet24]

I still feel that there must be some compositions that are safe to work with inside, at least something like paraffin-based smoke comps (currently, mine won't even burn when I want it to . Gotta dry those chems). However, I understand that you have all had a lot more experience than I have, so I will take your word for it and not work with compositions indoors. Even if I may get a little defensive at times, I truly appreciate that you care about me and others enough to give safety advice.

How far away from my house would you consider a safe distance for a tent or shed? My backyard isn't huge, as I live in the suburbs, but I do have some space (something like 6-8m from my house). Beyond that, there's city land made up of a dirt berm, a ditch, and then a very tall concrete wall.

 

As for the topic of this thread: Tonight I cut a piece of a 1/4" ID plastic tube (PVC I think) and a 1/4" dowel. These are for a 1/4" star pump.

I'm wondering how I could make glitter stars (i.e. N1) with a pump. I understand that ramming a comp that contains metals is dangerous, and even lightly tapping the pump with a rubber mallet would probably be a bit dangerous too. I don't have a press, but would hand-pressing work and be consistent?

[lloyd]

Good for you. 6-8M isn't all that far, but you limit the potential for damage by limiting the content. Make one thing at a time, and properly store it in a fireproof container (like a metal ammo-can) before proceeding to the next. Put away materials as you go, rather than making a huge mess and cleaning at the end.

 

For a 1/4" pump, you most certainly CAN hand-press. Put a ball handle on the dowel, so that you can exert good force on it without hurting your hand.

 

FWIW, lightly malletting wet composition is not particularly dangerous, and, absent a press, is necessary with larger push-out molds (from about 22mm up). Today, with the commonly-available cheap arbor presses, malletting has given way to pressing, as being safer and more consistent.

 

Lloyd

[pyroman2498]

I'll tell you what I've been told most of my Pyro career. Join a Pyro club and you will be able to build to your heart desires. Been in my club going on 3 years and I love it. Get to build what I like while being supervised by people who have much much more experience than me. You will benefit from joining a club and if you are like me you will love the conversations that are talked about.

~Steven

[BlueComet24]

Do you know of a club near Seattle? The closest I know of is WPA, but Lake Havasu, AZ, is much too far away.

How do you store and transport your materials to build at a club meet?

[lloyd]

Blue,

I know there are other amateurs near you. I don't know if there's a club, because I'm an east coast fellow.

 

But on the latter question: You may transport materials and tools with no problems. You may not transport explosives - even for your own use - over public roads unless you possess an ATF license or permit.

 

If you're licensed, and the fireworks are for your own private use ("not in commerce", even if they were once commercial goods), you don't need to placard your vehicle or possess a CDL.

 

Lloyd

[mikeee]

Spent a couple of hours working on the beast, the bigger ones are harder to whittle down when first mounted. This is a 12" hollow barrel stave type case former made from pine, very light weight.

 

[BlueComet24]

Wow, mikeee, that's quite the case former! I don't think I've ever seen even a video of a 12" cylinder shell. If my calculations are correct (11x25" cylinder versus 11" sphere) then a shell of that size would hold 3.4 times the contents of the same diameter ball shell. That'd be about the volume of a 16.5" ID ball shell.