WARNING TO ALL HOBBIEST's , visco is now REGULATED by BATFE

[patsroom]

OK! I see what the line of thinking is leaning to, but the fuses we use are still legal at this time. So the next step is to make everyone get licensed, then make it illegal and then they will have a data base as to whom they can search and seize material from. Then all the government has to do is keep a eye on those in their data base.

Thing start as a right then becomes a privilege, privilege lead to requiring to license which then leads to restricting who gets the required licence which end up making a regulation that stated it is against the law to buy, make or to have ownership of.

That has led the starting of people learning to the making of visco fuse and the machine, chlorate cell, black match so it can be made into Quick match and the list gets longer by the day.

Having seen You-Tube the government has taught alot of 10,11, ect.. year olds how to make boomers, e-matches, visco and you name it. I have seen children making chlorate cells and and using bleach to make chlorate.

So the government is going to have a very hard time now that they are responsible for the most of this mess, scaring us into a panic mode to get the jump on the coming of the law that we feel will be in the works in a few years.

I think that this is just great! Stupid Government................Pat

Edited January 13, 2015 by patsroom

[taiwanluthiers]

The only reason Federal prisons tend to be more pleasant than state prison is because Federal government often jails non-criminals while real criminals often go to state prisons.

[pyrokid]

What are the ATF's motives for this very un-American edict? I am deeply and profoundly shocked that they would take such an action.

[dagabu]

I think of this like I do "gun control". If you wish to eliminate the free ownership of guns, you don't go after the owners, let them have all the guns they want. Regulate lead, close down all the smelters, make transporting lead illegal, start propaganda about lead being poisonous and vilify it so that the general culture turns on its use in anything. Make "Pb Free" the new tagline for "good electronics".

 

Go after nitrocellulose next, go after all the fuses if you want to go after fireworks? Sure, sounds like a plan.

[Bobosan]

I think of this like I do "gun control". If you wish to eliminate the free ownership of guns, you don't go after the owners, let them have all the guns they want. Regulate lead, close down all the smelters, make transporting lead illegal, start propaganda about lead being poisonous and vilify it so that the general culture turns on its use in anything. Make "Pb Free" the new tagline for "good electronics".

 

Go after nitrocellulose next, go after all the fuses if you want to go after fireworks? Sure, sounds like a plan.

 

 

Chipping away at all angles, for sure. Since you mentioned it, the antis have tried and continue to try on the lead issue.

 

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/?p=74205/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=ddolbee&utm_campaign=20150110-chronicle0110-federalappellatecourtrulesinfavorofsecondamendment

[Mumbles]

My interpretation of this isn't so much as making visco illegal, rather just reinforcing and clarifying a previous ruling. Sporting BP is legal for use in cannons, firearms, and cultural means. Visco is under similar exeptions for it's use in cannons and firearms. When we use sporting grade BP in fireworks, it's still illegal as it does not fit under one of the previous exemptions and should be stored in a magazine. The same goes with visco.

 

I suppose it remains to be seen what will come of this, if anything. It seems as if the smart bet is to just get licensed, even if only possessing a user's permit. Per my reading, it's still legal to ship such things (having 1.4g or 1.4s DOT classification). It's only once obtained that suitable storage should such be adhered to.

 

In all honesty, this is probably more of a "we can get you if we want to, but really don't generally care" type of deal.

[Sparx88]

As always Mum, you are wise. I was looking forward to what you had to say on this.

 

Just another heads up everyone, just in case someone has yet to think of this;

 

Be carefull lighting anything pyrotechnic that does'nt stay on the ground like fountains, smokes, whistlers etc.

Though that itself is a given, heres where it really bothers me....lighting any pyrotechnic that is'nt legal to do in your state without a license, shells, cakes etc puts you in real danger should a lawman or agent decides to stop by because they now know that those types of pyro devices are using fuses of different types. So they don't have to worry about what grade of pyro your shooting, they only need the fact that fuse is being used to have probable cause to come over and check your activities, and while doing that they see that you are using, manufacturing and storing pyro/explosives illegaly....it would be a very bad day. I;m sure they could even look up to see who is licensed for pyro or related in that area and when no-one shows up on the list...bingo

Even if all your lighting is commercial consumer items, they don't know that until they come see. But even if you don't have any fuse nor make your own pyro, your still illegally lighting aerial fireworks that are illegal to shoot unless you are licensed. Unless of course you live somewhere where fireworks are legal to buy, posses, store and shoot whenever you want. So all you hobby pyros that make your own BP, shells, etc in the shadows, it's not advisable to do any aerial testing/shooting until the 4th and new years and hope even then you can blend in and not become a victim. For me this is torture, I do pyro as often as I can, weekly even. Or used to anyway.

 

So for me, becoming legal must happen. Not because I believe in everything that revolves around that, I mean we do need some limits because of careless mistakes/stupid people/kids, but for the rest of us it should be an open book to do. so that I can once again fully enjoy my hobby without fear of legal troubles and crule and unusual punishment for a legitimate hobby.

 

Any thoughts on what I said up there anyone?

Edited January 13, 2015 by Sparx88

[taiwanluthiers]

That's what I used to do, only shoot anything when everyone else is shooting. Or stick to shooting only during PGI events or otherwise. Note it's not legal to transport completed devices without a license however...

[Maserface]

As always Mum, you are wise. I was looking forward to what you had to say on this.

 

Just another heads up everyone, just in case someone has yet to think of this;

 

Be carefull lighting anything pyrotechnic that does'nt stay on the ground like fountains, smokes, whistlers etc.

Though that itself is a given, heres where it really bothers me....lighting any pyrotechnic that is'nt legal to do in your state without a license, shells, cakes etc puts you in real danger should a lawman or agent decides to stop by because they now know that those types of pyro devices are using fuses of different types. So they don't have to worry about what grade of pyro your shooting, they only need the fact that fuse is being used to have probable cause to come over and check your activities, and while doing that they see that you are using, manufacturing and storing pyro/explosives illegaly....it would be a very bad day. I;m sure they could even look up to see who is licensed for pyro or related in that area and when no-one shows up on the list...bingo

Even if all your lighting is commercial consumer items, they don't know that until they come see. But even if you don't have any fuse nor make your own pyro, your still illegally lighting aerial fireworks that are illegal to shoot unless you are licensed. Unless of course you live somewhere where fireworks are legal to buy, posses, store and shoot whenever you want. So all you hobby pyros that make your own BP, shells, etc in the shadows, it's not advisable to do any aerial testing/shooting until the 4th and new years and hope even then you can blend in and not become a victim. For me this is torture, I do pyro as often as I can, weekly even. Or used to anyway.

 

So for me, becoming legal must happen. Not because I believe in everything that revolves around that, I mean we do need some limits because of careless mistakes/stupid people/kids, but for the rest of us it should be an open book to do. so that I can once again fully enjoy my hobby without fear of legal troubles and crule and unusual punishment for a legitimate hobby.

 

Any thoughts on what I said up there anyone?

 

 

and make sure you keep your tinfoil hat on straight

 

+1 Mumbles

Edited January 13, 2015 by Maserface

[FlaMtnBkr]

The average cop is not going to have a clue about the Orange book or BATFE regulations and curiosity about fuse type will never happen. Most cops don't know all the common laws. They arrest when they think something is wrong and leave the courts to prove innocence. I mean guilt.

[Eric70]

Pffffft.

 

The increased regulation of visco is just one more thing to bust your nuts with if they want to go after you.

It will give feds more strength to hold a person. It will be one more charge to throw at person who gets busted making unlicensed fireworks discovered due to a complaint or accident.

 

MN has a marijuana tax stamp law that appeared in the late 80s or early 90s that requires a person growing pot to have bought a tax stamp. I always found that puzzling because it was illegal to grow pot in MN. With that in mind, some of the goofballs around here who have been raided for growing pot not only got nailed for growing it they got nailed for not having a tax stamp.

 

My apologies for going a bit off topic here with apples and oranges but I see something of a similar peculiarity with the law in both arenas.

[fredjr]

From PML...

 

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 11:29:52 -0600
From: "Dan Creagan"

To: <pml@kclo3.com>
Subject: Re: [pml] Is visco fuse is now a controlled item?!

Yes. I contacted EIPB and they replied this morning. The newsletter simply
restates the rules we've always been under. The UN exemptions still apply.
If the fuse is marked with UN0336 or UN0337 or (UN0431 or UN0432 Articles
Pyrotechnic) then it is exempt from storage. There will be some updates to
the Articles Pyrotechnic UN numbers coming down the pipe but for now, those
are still all exempt if your product has those numbers. The ATF has
advertised the Articles Pyrotechnic thing for a couple of years now so
nothing new has been released.

Note that DOT classifications (EX or transportation codes like 1.4) do not
apply (and never did). For storage exemption, the ATF only uses the four UN
numbers that are in the Orange Book (see (555.141 (a)(7), 336, 337, 431, or
432)). Be sure your fuse has the proper designation. If it doesn't or if
your seller didn't send the label with it, then you should store it in a
magazine (note this is the way it has always been).

Dan

[FlaMtnBkr]

That's good news. Guess I can cancel that order for a dozen 5000' rolls of visco.

[asdercks]

mmmmm... seems I'll have plenty of visco for the next few years ( bought me some rolls)

[patsroom]

The average cop is not going to have a clue about the Orange book or BATFE regulations and curiosity about fuse type will never happen. Most cops don't know all the common laws. They arrest when they think something is wrong and leave the courts to prove innocence. I mean guilt.

My post back at #2 says what I feel about it. To arrest a person on suspicion is the same as the arresting officer is as saying your guilty, in my book.But then again I have a very small book. ..............Pat

PS. I may have hit the wrong button on you if I did please disregard as it was a Floridian slip, I mean just a slip.

[ddewees]

 

Any thoughts on what I said up there anyone?

Other than a wall of meaningless crap?

[Sparx88]

Not meaningless to me and some others. Those are my honest thought. I like to stay out of trouble and getting busted once with this stuff well use your imagination not mine because it doesn't mean anything to you. I didn't say all that to all the vets here it was intended for those who don't know what the deal is.

Maybe I'm overreacting it's not the first time.

 

 

So then is this fuse required to be in a mag and do I need a license?

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Sparx88

[Baldhills420]

Hello I am very new to this hobby and I have started with sugar and potassium nitrate,as my propellant for small rockets, I'm very new so if I sound like I have no idea what I'm talking about its because I don't,

 

To this post I ordered 3/32 visco fuse through eBay, does that mean I broke federal law?

Edited January 14, 2015 by Baldhills420

[dagabu]

As always Mum, you are wise. I was looking forward to what you had to say on this.

 

Just another heads up everyone, just in case someone has yet to think of this;

 

Be carefull lighting anything pyrotechnic that does'nt stay on the ground like fountains, smokes, whistlers etc.

Though that itself is a given, heres where it really bothers me....lighting any pyrotechnic that is'nt legal to do in your state without a license, shells, cakes etc puts you in real danger should a lawman or agent decides to stop by because they now know that those types of pyro devices are using fuses of different types. So they don't have to worry about what grade of pyro your shooting, they only need the fact that fuse is being used to have probable cause to come over and check your activities, and while doing that they see that you are using, manufacturing and storing pyro/explosives illegaly....it would be a very bad day. I;m sure they could even look up to see who is licensed for pyro or related in that area and when no-one shows up on the list...bingo

Even if all your lighting is commercial consumer items, they don't know that until they come see. But even if you don't have any fuse nor make your own pyro, your still illegally lighting aerial fireworks that are illegal to shoot unless you are licensed. Unless of course you live somewhere where fireworks are legal to buy, posses, store and shoot whenever you want. So all you hobby pyros that make your own BP, shells, etc in the shadows, it's not advisable to do any aerial testing/shooting until the 4th and new years and hope even then you can blend in and not become a victim. For me this is torture, I do pyro as often as I can, weekly even. Or used to anyway.

 

So for me, becoming legal must happen. Not because I believe in everything that revolves around that, I mean we do need some limits because of careless mistakes/stupid people/kids, but for the rest of us it should be an open book to do. so that I can once again fully enjoy my hobby without fear of legal troubles and crule and unusual punishment for a legitimate hobby.

 

Any thoughts on what I said up there anyone?

 

I think we were covered pretty well by the 10 commandments, don't see a need for a nanny state or a bunch of extraneous rules and laws passed to make it look as if our legislators are working...

[Bobosan]

 

I think we were covered pretty well by the 10 commandments, don't see a need for a nanny state or a bunch of extraneous rules and laws passed to make it look as if our legislators are working...

 

+1

[ORMDale]

I logged in this morning to share what I found out, but it looks like fredjr has already covered it.

 

Here's a quote from an email reply I got from a well-known seller of fuse and other supplies:

 

 

As for the news letter I think it will all settle down soon. We may have to get China to do some UN number labeling at the factory but it's not the end of the world.

[Maserface]

Not meaningless to me and some others. Those are my honest thought. I like to stay out of trouble and getting busted once with this stuff well use your imagination not mine because it doesn't mean anything to you. I didn't say all that to all the vets here it was intended for those who don't know what the deal is.

 

Maybe I'm overreacting it's not the first time.

 

 

So then is this fuse required to be in a mag and do I need a license?

fuse.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

So your misinformation was directed only at the people who dont know any better? What a joke!

 

If you spend 5 minutes reading anything on the subject, you wouldnt have to now ask if your fuse is regulated.

[Sparx88]

Good god take it the hell easy nobody is perfect. I overreacted and didn't fully understand. I stand corrected. I apologize. I did look into it but was apparently still not with it. All I was trying to convey is to be careful and take it seriously like we do when someone new comes here asking how to make Bangers.

 

So please let the flogging stop. I still love everyone.

[Sparx88]

 

I think we were covered pretty well by the 10 commandments, don't see a need for a nanny state or a bunch of extraneous rules and laws passed to make it look as if our legislators are working...

Not at all what I was talking about. You can't have this stuff laying around the candy isle or lighting stuff off at the playground. I agree on the 10 commandments comment you should know that, we've talked.

[ddewees]

Playgrounds are my favorite spots...

 

[Video]