DonCopal Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Hi there, I'm having some problems with the vineyard charcoal I recently bought (I always used pine charcoal before, but vineyard coal is said to give higher performance for BP).First, I realized that it was more clumpy than the pine coal. It is very fine (about 20 micron) but it clumps together like sulfur.I tried to to dry it, but it already was completely dry.When I tried to make BP with it (Standart 75/15/10), I found it stick to the inside of the lid of my ballmill.That made it nearly impossible to effectively mill it, it burns quite slow and is very clumpy. Can you help me?
psypuls Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) You can gently tap the bottom of the gummed barrel as you empty it, to get the stickied bp out. I use this ratio for vineyard due to the higher ash content, the way you describe vineyard is correct, it's a little bit like sulfur clumped, and not as airfloat as the pine charcoal.72/17/1190/21,3/13,8 (+25%) I also use 125 grams of black powder per run, if I use anymore then i'd have to run it for longer than a day which I don't like. by the way, with this formula and no dextrin then you only need 6% of the shells weight, it's very potent! Edited January 7, 2015 by psypuls
dagabu Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Hi there, I'm having some problems with the vineyard charcoal I recently bought (I always used pine charcoal before, but vineyard coal is said to give higher performance for BP).First, I realized that it was more clumpy than the pine coal. It is very fine (about 20 micron) but it clumps together like sulfur.I tried to to dry it, but it already was completely dry.When I tried to make BP with it (Standart 75/15/10), I found it stick to the inside of the lid of my ballmill.That made it nearly impossible to effectively mill it, it burns quite slow and is very clumpy. Can you help me? psypuls, My experience with grape vine charcoal was completely dismal, it was no good for BP at all and it all went into the garden to feed the wife's flowers. Sorry.
psypuls Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 dagabu, I also think that the vineyard charcoal is not a miracle charcoal but the performance can be very potent and so can commercial charcoal.vineyard might be equal to "commercial non-briquette, broad-leaves charcoal" that can be bought on the supermarket and that is not bad at all if you break it into pieces and mill the charcoal.
enanthate Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 You say you dried it. How? Sounds to me that its still got moisture (even sticking to the lid?)
Mumbles Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I've noticed a difference based on where the grapevine charcoal is sourced. In Europe it seems acceptable to decent. The stuff generally available in the US is fairly poor by comparison though.
spitfire Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 I suggest one shouldn't use it at all... too many reports of failure or difficulties. Willow grows in many places. Pine too. Both make great or at least usable BP. There are a bunch of other woods that are considered very good sources. Don't buy charcoal, make it yourself.
DonCopal Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I dried it by putting it on top of my oven for a few days.It was made in Malta. I also have some pine charcoal which is completely airfloat, do you think it will give better results? Don't understand me wrong, the vneyard BP burn really fast, but I have to mill it for quite a long time (around 16h).I use ceramic media. So, shall I: a) go on using vineyard coal b ) use pine coal or c) make willow coal? Edited January 10, 2015 by DonCopal
schroedinger Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 d) use lead media e) use alderDid you do some baseball tests? No one here will be able to tell you what is the right way, you need to try it.
psypuls Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I dried it by putting it on top of my oven for a few days.It was made in Malta. I also have some pine charcoal which is completely airfloat, do you think it will give better results? Don't understand me wrong, the vneyard BP burn really fast, but I have to mill it for quite a long time (around 16h).I use ceramic media. So, shall I: a) go on using vineyard coal b ) use pine coal or c) make willow coal?Vineyard is faster than pine, do some tests if you don't believe in your vineyard.
dagabu Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Vineyard is faster than pine, do some tests if you don't believe in your vineyard. Not the vines we have up here they are not. Out vine charcoal is very slow, even slower than lump charcoal for cooking while White Pine is a nice in-between speed from cedar and vine.
DonCopal Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 Do you think cedar, willow or alder are faster than vine? I actually don't need it for lift charges, I want to make BP rockets with it.
dagabu Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Vine charcoal apparently can vary from genus to genus. I have NO experience with any vinifera outside the USA and NO vitis outside the Cold Hardy region BUT for rockets, you would be surprised how many charcoals work spectacularly!
FlaMtnBkr Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Grapevine was one of the slowest charcoals I have tested out of about 15 various species of plants. I don't have my notes and it may actually have been the slowest. I used wild vine about the diameter of your finger and peeled off as much bark as I could. I think the stuff used on the other side of the pond is the newer growth that is cut back each year and any 'bark' is left on which could make a big difference. I might one day try to pick enough small growth to make a batch of charcoal but I have such better wood available that it isn't high on my list of things to try. Plus it will still be wild vine so who knows. Though thinking about it there are a couple vineyards within driving distance though I'm sure I've already missed the pruning for this year. Anyways, just scrap 2x4 that is untreated from a construction site, or even a whole board is cheap enough, makes hotter BP. Just look for the lighter color and weight boards. As Dag mentioned you can make a rocket with most any charcoal depending on your methods and performance you are looking for. The slower it is the more you may have to process it and the less it will lift. But if you are using a nozzle and a core you should be able to get something in the air just fine. Give what you have a try and in the future you can try other charcoals as you get more into the hobby. Some people don't like making charcoal but it is pretty easy and doesn't take much more than an old paint can or two.
DonCopal Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 I wanted to use it for BP coreburners. Do you think it will help if I upload a video of a burn test of the vineyard BP?Because I think it actually burns very fast.
dagabu Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I wanted to use it for BP coreburners. Do you think it will help if I upload a video of a burn test of the vineyard BP?Because I think it actually burns very fast. Faster is better for endburners, for sure! Nice post FlaMtnBkr, very well said!
FlaMtnBkr Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 If you think it burns fast then it will probably work perfect for a core burner. BP that seems to burn fairly slow will make a good rocket with a nozzle and core. Out of curiosity what ratio and diameter rocket are you wanting to make? You may have mentioned but I'm holding a squirmy baby and didn't look back. Give it a try. It can't hurt and isn't very expensive. You will want to test a bunch and make sure they are fairly reliable before you start putting a heading on anyway. After that first 'whoosh' you will be back knocking out another dozen before you know it.
DonCopal Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 I want to make a 15mm coreburner rocket (150mm tube length).
dagabu Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) The easiest way to make a rocket (begining) is to make a nozzleless motor using ALL BP and no nozzle clay. You can use any rocket tooling to do this, any BP and just about any motor tube. The pleasure about these is the ability to lift heavier objects to a viewable height. Use a piece of Visco long enough to reach the end of the spindle core and wrap masking take (the long way) around it about 5 layers deep, leave the ends free, stuff it all the way up the motor and launch. REALLY hot BP and whistle will CATO but tame and middle of the road BP do just fine with this kind or motor. Edited January 10, 2015 by dagabu
DonCopal Posted January 11, 2015 Author Posted January 11, 2015 Maybe I didn't really explain where I stand: I do have made coreburners beore, with pine charcoal BP. Then I bought vineyard coal as I thought it would give hotter BP, but the powder was very clumpy as I explained etc..But I do have experience and I already have that tool, that's not what I wanted to know. But thanks anyway.
schroedinger Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Did you mill the charcoal down to airfloat? If noand it doesn't work, the just stay with pine and yes alser is faster then vine
Mia Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 The easiest way to make a rocket (begining) is to make a nozzleless motor using ALL BP and no nozzle clay. You can use any rocket tooling to do this, any BP and just about any motor tube. The pleasure about these is the ability to lift heavier objects to a viewable height. Use a piece of Visco long enough to reach the end of the spindle core and wrap masking take (the long way) around it about 5 layers deep, leave the ends free, stuff it all the way up the motor and launch. REALLY hot BP and whistle will CATO but tame and middle of the road BP do just fine with this kind or motor. I made one
DonCopal Posted January 11, 2015 Author Posted January 11, 2015 But what is the fastest: cedar, alder or willow?
Mumbles Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Probably alder or willow. It will depend species to species, but most varieties of those woods are quite fast.
enanthate Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 For what its worth, pine is by far the hottest charcoal i have tried. Of course, not all pine charcoals are the same. How its made also matters. I make hot lift in 2 hours, 3lb HF mill. My pine is from England, pm for info.
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