Lead Exposure (especially in people under 18)

[AldoSPyro]

Hey APC forum,

 

I've been doing hobbyist pyrotechnics for about a half a year now and have been learning about it for >1 years. I currently own a small harbor freight ball mill which uses hardened lead antimony media. Lead is quite a nasty metal, more so for children that adults. I've been recently experiencing some symptoms commonly associated with lead poisoning and I was wondering, even if I stop my exposure to lead (not use my ball mill or anything milled with it) will my problems persist? I am under 18 and I've heard that lead can cause some ( sometimes irreversible ) Neurological effects . I'm wondering if anyone else here has had any problems with lead poisoning or other things with similar likeness.

 

Thanks,

-AldoSpyro

Edited November 20, 2014 by AldoSPyro

[alexpyro101]

Don't ask us, tell your parents and ask a doctor. You don't want to put your health in our hands. What symptoms are you experiencing?

 

Also have you been using a respirator of sorts.

You need to have some sort of dust mask when doing pyro, many recommend the paper masks from the paining isle, use one of the heavier duty masks with the straps and the rubber seal around it.

 

If you feel you are having problems with the lead exposure stop using lead, it's that simple. There are a few different non-sparking media's that can be used for milling blackpowder. One i would recommend is Alumina, they are ceramic and have served me well.

 

Last you are under 18, and have been doing pyro for less than a year. Odds are you haven't been making tons of blackpowder that quickly. I highly doubt that you have done any serious permanent harm in that amount of time, and who knows it could be something else. Maybe you got sick recently, chronically dehydrated, maybe you're allergic to something.

 

Also it may be beneficial to provide a list of chemicals you have been using to us. Have you been inhaling alchohol or acetone vapors? Have you been using Barium nitrate (from what i have read this chemical is one of the nasty ones) etc.

[AldoSPyro]

No I've only been using potassium nitrate, sulfur, charcoal, and dextrin. My symptoms are headache, sleep problems, irritability, abdominal cramps, and a few other random unpleasant things. These all might be associated with other problems, but I thought maybe lead was the reason. I've been using a 3M respirator when working with large quantities of dust, but with my first 100g batch of bp I only used a cheap dust mask. Also I've handled the lead media without gloves maybe once or twice if it fell out of the mill, but I washed my hands after. But I've had lead exposure in the past while handling lead containers and blocks used in radiation protection, and while soldering.

[AldoSPyro]

Also I've milled a few hundred grams of granulated kno3 and the powder is slightly gray with lead contamination, so I thought maybe the dust from that might have been an issue. Edited November 20, 2014 by AldoSPyro

[Ubehage]

Lead will accumulate in your body, since there is no normal bodily functions to get rid of it.

If you stop all exposure now, the amount of lead in you will slowly (SLOWLY!) drop, but long-term effects are impossible to predict untill it's too late.

 

Touching a lead ball poses no real risk. Only if it's powdered/airborn, or you somehow ingest it.

 

As Alexpyro said, ask a doctor. If anyone has a good idea, it's propably him (or her).

Edited November 20, 2014 by Ubehage

[LambentPyro]

Lead metal isn't really that harmful as its compounds. Lead compounds are the ones that can give you the nasty health problems, i.e. Lead oxides (II and IV), Lead Sulfate, etc.

 

Although I'm not saying ingesting or somehow putting Lead metal in your system won't cause any issues.

[MrB]

From his description, possibly the lead soldering could be an issue, but everything else, i'd say "not to worry" it's not lead poisoning. Go see a doctor, and find out whats actually wrong with you.

B!

[Arthur]

Personally I think you have checked on the symptoms then got them, stop worrying. Go see a doctor, see whether you have an elevated blood lead content -expect this test to cost lots of money!

 

If after a year of hobby pyro you really have lead poisoning then your technique is so horribly bad that there must be LOTs you can do to reduce lead exposure, you must also be contaminated with other chems maybe nitrate sulphur and dextrin are less noticeable! Work cleanly or don't work at all.

[alexpyro101]

Personally I think you have checked on the symptoms then got them, stop worrying.

This.

[AldoSPyro]

Thanks for all your advice!

[pyroman2498]

hey , just a heads up , I recently got a heavy metal screening ( blood test for heavy metals ) and I have never worn gloves while making black powder , I sometimes wear respirator when grinding the charcoal but not when taking out the bp from ball mill , and it came out inconclusive , but later I got a notefrom the doctor that said it was normal , and the lead balls I use arnt hardened meaning im getting more lead in my bp that yours. and when I use to go fishing I always would bite down on those fishing weights that you had to crimp onto the line and im still fine.

I feel like your just like me and are a hypochondriac and anytime you read symptoms you feel the symptoms ( this is actually why I got my blood screen anyways , I thought I had mercury poisoning , and there isn't any traces of mercury in my blood at all )

don't worry to much about it but if your that worried , go to a doctor and get some blood drawn , the test cost me no money at all ( although I have insurance )

 

Stay Safe and Stay green!

 

~Steven

[dynomike1]

I have been around lead for 61yrs. and i don't have any of those symptoms.I would talk to a doctor.

[Arthur]

If you really have lead poisoning of any form after one year of DIY pyro then your work technique must be so bad as to cause concern itself.

 

Fine powders/dusts suggest a respirator, dirty hands suggests disposible gloves, any possible cuts or skin wounds must be covered til healed. BUT if you work carefully and cleanly then all the dust you make should stay in the mill til you need it for powder.

 

Among the many reasons for ceramic media is the lead-free aspect, then there is the lower mass so you can get more balls spinning well on an under powered tumbler/mill.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Arthur

[pyroman2498]

If you really have lead poisoning of any form after one year of DIY pyro then your work technique must be so bad as to cause concern itself.

 

Fine powders/dusts suggest a respirator, dirty hands suggests disposible gloves, any possible cuts or skin wounds must be covered til healed. BUT if you work carefully and cleanly then all the dust you make should stay in the mill til you need it for powder.

 

Among the many reasons for ceramic media is the lead-free aspect, then there is the lower mass so you can get more balls spinning well on an under powered tumbler/mill.

I have worked with no gloves on and cuts on my hands with my BP that has trace amounts of lead in it and still don't have an alarming amount of lead in my blood , I honestly don't think BP will cause lead poisoning...

[Arthur]

"Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards". ~Shane Patton

 

Good working practises are worth following. They will stand you in good stead when dealing with more acutely toxic materials such as Barium salts, and arsenic salts.

 

That you have worked without sensible PPE isn't something to brag about or teach

[pyroman2498]

"Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards". ~Shane Patton

 

Good working practises are worth following. They will stand you in good stead when dealing with more acutely toxic materials such as Barium salts, and arsenic salts.

 

That you have worked without sensible PPE isn't something to brag about or teach

im jut trying to get a point across , not trying to brag, im just trying to get across that the likely chance of him being poisoned by BP is slim to none

[Arthur]

I used to work in a factory that moved cyanide by the pallet on a fork lift, I've seen how to do things safely and seen the downsides of letting best practise slip a little. AIM for best practise done well, then if you fall from those high standards there is a little to go before it becomes critical.

 

I'm well aware that the OP (Aldo) is very unlikely to have real lead poisoning, but in preparation for more acutely toxic materials some PPE and some best working practise will go a LONG way to being safe for life.

[sora]

As somebody has suggested,the best way to determine if you have alarming quantity of Lead in your blood is to get a blood test. You can also have alook look if activated charcoal pills(sold in places like VitaminShop and WholeFoods etc. and not from SkyLighter ;-)) can reduce accidental lead exposure, particularly through the oral route.Inhaled lead dust may reach your stomach through tha nasal-oral route. Edited November 22, 2014 by sora

[AldoSPyro]

I am pretty sure that I dont have lead poisioning, Its probably just a combination of stress, lack of sleep, and negative mental attitude. I just overall feel like shit, but thanks for giving me resolution to this issue.

[rogeryermaw]

this is just me and may not apply to everyone or anyone else at all, but the change of seasons has a similar effect on me every year. i get tired faster, sleep more, have less energy and positivity and just overall don't do as well. the further into winter i go, having less light/solar exposure, bad weather and being stuck inside, depression can even start to creep in. of course i don't know what side of the equator you are on...

[pyroman2498]

this is just me and may not apply to everyone or anyone else at all, but the change of seasons has a similar effect on me every year. i get tired faster, sleep more, have less energy and positivity and just overall don't do as well. the further into winter i go, having less light/solar exposure, bad weather and being stuck inside, depression can even start to creep in. of course i don't know what side of the equator you are on...

 

 

I am pretty sure that I dont have lead poisioning, Its probably just a combination of stress, lack of sleep, and negative mental attitude. I just overall feel like shit, but thanks for giving me resolution to this issue.

I agree with both of these , as I have found my mental health to have effect on my physical health..

[Ubehage]

I also think that hypochondria (where you read about symptoms, and then starts noticing them on yourself), is a widely normal behavior. More or less.

 

It's a good thing that you decided to read about dangers and symptoms, but be very aware of the order: If you did not have any symptoms before you knew about them; you have less than 0.1% chance of being sick.

[AldoSPyro]

I had some of the symptoms before I read them, but it's not related to lead. I believe it was a combination of stress, anxiety, lack of sleep, and general negative mental attitude.

[Arthur]

Lead, soluble Barium salts (nitrate) and Arsenic (Paris Green) are the first few hazardous chems that we could well use, but most are almost harmless.

 

It pays to be wise about real hazards and be able to take good precautions, BUT worrying that you might have .... -well you are more likely to have martians living next door.

 

If you ever use cyanides, then start to take a LOT more care, but even then "good housekeeping" will keep you safe.

[mikeee]

Those symptoms are almost the same as Lackanookie Syndrome.