pudidotdk Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I found a danish pottery site (www.cerama.dk) that sells e.g. barium carbonate, copper carbonate, lithium carbonate... Can any decent color compositions be made with those plus some of the following chems: KNO3SulphurCharcoalZink dustAluminium flitterMagnesium (around 60-70 mesh, but I can make it finer)Magnesium (coarse fillings)Red Iron oxide These are my best chemicals that I could get, of course I also house hold items such as sodium bicarbonate etc. and some useless chemicals for pyro such as lithium chloride.. I can also make Black Copper oxide if necessary... And no! I can't get perchlorates or chlorates... (except if shipping is ~1 million$) - Thanks!
Mumbles Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 The short answer is no. As far as chlorates and perchlorates, you could always make them. I've never seen even a mediocre color comp based upon nitrates, at least not without any exotic things like Realgar or Paris Green.
DeAdFX Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 You will need a chlorine donor in order to get any sort of descent color. I think if you convert your carbonates into chlorides you might be able to make some descent colors. I know that Copper (I) chloride makes a pretty good blue coloring chemical. Then and again I have never tried to seriously make a color compisition with KNO3. I have used AmmoniuM nitrate to make a blue comp. The flame envelope was so small it killed any advantages of using Ammonium Nitrate which is that it decomposes at at a low temperature. Zinc I hear makes an aqua colored flame and I don't think you need a Chlorine donor for that...
Mumbles Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I took it as meaning he wanted to use the carbonates as coloring agents, so I disreguarded the chlorides and other salts, as well as granite stars.. Converting to chlorides may perhaps provide some result. If you can get the nitrates of the strontium or barium it's a totally different story though. There are a few very good comps based upon those.
itwasntme Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I am able to make a few colors with your chemicals, I have about the same set up as you. Get some aluminum powder, then you will be able to make whites. I can make green, white, yellow, and pink. Green is a granite star. White is aluminum powder/magnesium to BP. Yellow is h0lx's yellow star comp.http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33&st=1700#And, pink is potassium nitrate, sugar, and sulfur. 63:27:10.
pudidotdk Posted February 22, 2007 Author Posted February 22, 2007 Mumbles is right, I wanted to make colors with the carbonates. I've already tried granite stars plus white burning etc... So guess the only way is kno3.com
optimus Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 So guess the only way is kno3.com http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?a...indpost&p=15519
pudidotdk Posted February 22, 2007 Author Posted February 22, 2007 ...Right, Just forgot that when I wrote it. I've just made contact to a person who will help me get almost any chemical I want. The prices are alright (but a little high) there's a minimum of 1700 kr. (~300$) but that not the worst, what if PET (the danish police-kinda fbi thingie) showed up and asked what i was using it for. The only thing you use KClO4 for is pyro...
al93535 Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Why YES you sure can make colors with potassium nitrate, carbonates, a chlorine donor and magnesium! They will not be the best, but they WILL work. I suggest using parlon as the chlorine donor AND the binder. This way you have a chlorine donor, and you can protect the MG. DO NOT try to bind these with water unless yer mg is coated. Use Xylene, or paint thinner.
Aquarius Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Are you ordering from Herr Nilson in Sweden? He is not the cheapest, but he'll get you what you want. How about your web-site by the way, is it comming soon? My two-cents worth is to order some KClO4 from a good source, or maybe someone can direct us to an UNDERSTANDABLE link for making perclorates?
pudidotdk Posted February 22, 2007 Author Posted February 22, 2007 Al: How much is the price for parlon, is it cheap?How do I find out if my magnesium is coated? Do I have to grinf it if its 60-70 mesh? It's quite difficult to grind in a mortar and pestle... Aquarius: I don't know who I'm odering from, I'm ordering trough another person. He'll buy it for me etc. qnd I'll pay him. I know he's quite reliable, but the person he will order from wants to be anonymous... The website... well... I havn't begun making it yet, but I will soon... perhaps. Don't know if the interest is that high or what. If my tourbillion works this time (my first flew like a dream, but I thought I recorded it but didn't and the others didn't work because I used bad propellers...) I'll start making it.
optimus Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Why YES you sure can make colors with potassium nitrate, carbonates, a chlorine donor and magnesium! What coloured stars can you make with kno3? I wasn't aware of any... Strontium/Barium Nitrates yes, but not Potassium Nitrate...
DeAdFX Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 ...Right, Just forgot that when I wrote it. I've just made contact to a person who will help me get almost any chemical I want. The prices are alright (but a little high) there's a minimum of 1700 kr. (~300$) but that not the worst, what if PET (the danish police-kinda fbi thingie) showed up and asked what i was using it for. The only thing you use KClO4 for is pyro... I remember reading that perchlorates have other uses for pyro. here read this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroborate I think it would be a little difficult to bullshit that angle because of your other chemicals but perchlorates do have other uses.... Hmm... I am thinking spelnda might be your best bet for a chlorine donor. Carbohydrates and pretty much any sort of organic material with a significant amount (like 30+%) oxygen seem to be pretty good fuels for nitrates. Anywho try using metal chlorides as your coloring agent and tell us how that goes.
Mumbles Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I dunno about splenda. IIRC, the chlorinated portion is rather small. Also, sucrose isn't the best fuel in colored comps. It burns hotter, and produces more carbon coloring the flame. I'll have to look up why it is. Most pyro chems piggy-back on another industry to keep costs down. Carbonates are from the ceramic industry. Nitrates from fertilizer. Chlorates from the match industry. Saran, well take a wild guess. Perchlorate comes from the auto and aerospace industry as airbags and rocket propellants respectively. Maybe you could get away with a rocketry excuse.
al93535 Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Parlon is pretty cheap. But of course I think that depends on how much you have to spend. If you don't know that your MG is coated, it isn't, and even if it was you might as well treat it as uncoated unless you are SURE it is. And 60-70 mesh huh? Thats pretty coarse, but I think you can use it. What colors? Whatever you want, however green and blue would be the poorest. Red would be easy, purple, yellow, orange, and aqua should be doable. I would start with this: kno3 62charcoal AF 4parlon 7Mg 17carbonate 10 You can use Sr carbonate, Ba carbonate (shitty green though) and a mix of carbonates to make purple for example. Yellow would be the easiest of course.
Mumbles Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I don't know about that Al. I would say green would be much more doable than purple. Anything blue based, like purple, will be difficult. One suggestion I can make for good colors is to convert the coloring salt to a fuel. Such as the benzoate, salicyliate, etc. That way you can increase the amount of coloring agent, without drastically affecting the burn rate. The carbonate is a relatively poor fuel. The acetate may work alright as a last resort, which would be formed by neutralizing the carbonate with household vinegar.
pudidotdk Posted February 23, 2007 Author Posted February 23, 2007 Maybe you could get away with a rocketry excuse. I really don't know about that, rocketry isn't legal here if you aren't member of a rocketry club. That's why we don't have Estes here. Damn politicians..
optimus Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Well I'll be darned - I was pretty much convinced that you couldn't make colours with Potassium Nitrate! Al - I've never seen a colour star formula with Kn03 as the oxidiser... where did you find the formula you quoted?
hst45 Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Perhaps you can change the carbonates to the more useful nitrates. Try this link: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthr...tid=136#pid1002
DeAdFX Posted February 26, 2007 Posted February 26, 2007 hmm pretty good information... I was wondering if Calcium phosphate is easier to filter than Calcium Sulfate as I have never worked with Calcium Phosphate before. I ask because the alkali phosphates are water soluble while others are insoluble. From there it shouldn't be to difficult to prepare the other nitrates.
mormanman Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 I know a way to make green although I've never tried it. Its on skylighter.LINK.
Mumbles Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 Wow, thanks for bringing up an old topic and posting something not related in any way.
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