Beyond screen-sliced stars

[tumbler]

I've always just made screen-sliced stars, but I'm now on to wanting to make more elaborate stars, some of which change color, and others that simply don't use Parlon. Anyhow, I've been fumbling around with the toro method, and think I've come up with a system that works pretty well.

 

Inert comp:

Sodium Bicarbonate 85

Dextrin 10

Airfloat 5 (makes it roughly the right color)

 

I just made this up. It seems to work, but if anyone has a better (dirt cheap) inert comp, I'm all ears.

 

Starting with mung beans (roundish looking beans that were roughly the right size), I soak them for a couple of hours and get them started with the two-bowl shaking method with dry comp. They didn't pick it up easily unless I soaked them first. Next I dry them in the sun for an hour or so. I'm really just looking for the lightest coating to bind to them.

 

Back to the bowls, I pour a LITTLE toro on them and roll them around until all the toro is gone from the bowl. Dust them with dry comp, and dry them again... Repeat...

 

This has produced a pretty nice, very round star. No real question... Just thought I'd share an early success story.

[schroedinger]

What do you use the inert comp for? Why not make tha toro from the comp you are actually going to use?

[pyrojig]

It seems like he is just testing the technique of learning toro. A inert comp for "practice" is not a bad idea. BEtter to not waste precious materials if they are hard to come by. Many amateurs just starting out have few resources , and learning with their stock may be to much to loose . Some folks use cheap charcoal comps for learning the toro method. Many things like your beans or rape seed are a very hard material to coat ( due to being so light) > Some use bento. clay to build up a base on the seed ,also to get the weight up and make coating easier to stick. There is a reason lots of new guys use lead shot to learn rolling with.

[tumbler]

I use inert comp mostly because I live in California. Also, pyrojig is right; the comps I plan to work with use shellac and those would be some costly mistakes.

 

The stars are coming along. I've used a white comp to mark where I started using toro. I will post a photo of a cross-section, which will hopefully show a number of layers and the core once I am happy with the results.

[schroedinger]

Ok, now it also makes sense to me.

 

Well i never used used lead shot for cores as i don't like the idea of leaving lead shot laying around after firing a shell. I always used rape seeds, commercial de's or pumped stars for cores.

 

Where the de's are the easiest to coat as they allready have a quite rough texture and are heavy. Just drop 'em into the roller start it up and spray them and add comp.

For the rape seeds i prefer to place them onto a sieve spray them there quite well, during shaking the sieve, then drop in a spoon of comp and then add the cores, this way they always pick up comp and can be rolled like normal stars from there on.

The best canola seeds i found are the ones sold as filling for heat pillows, as these are most times older ones and less likely to sprout.

 

Pumped stars should be handled just like the rape seeds but really can be a pain before they are coated enough to becomme round.

[Mumbles]

Lead shot burns up in the star. None of it returns to earth.

[tumbler]

I do try very hard to limit my use of lead. I use it to mill my BP, but even though very little contamination results from this, I still don't really like the idea. It is very hard to beat from a safety perspective though.

 

For those who may be interested, I'm finding that it is absolutely critical to allow full drying between toro -> dust coatings. Some sticking together after wetting seems inevitable, and the cores must be very durable to withstand the breaking up process. In many toro method videos, people reach into the roller with their hands and spread the toro around. I am finding that doing this both distributes the liquid more evenly and helps prevent the stars sticking together... Especially in the early stages.

 

Another fine-tuning that I have done is to build up the cores a little more with the spritz -> dust -> roll method before starting to use the toro. I was getting a good deal of stars sticking together and I found that this, combined with thinning out the toro helped a lot.

 

I like the idea of building them up with a little clay first. Anything that gets them heavy certainly seems to help the process along nicely. It's remarkable how much finesse these traditional, non mechanized methods require. Thanks for your thoughts guys! Hopefully I'll have some good cross-section photos to share later on today.

[psyco_1322]

Another thing to note, the amount of shot in a single 12ga shell is probably more than you will have in a single shell. You won't really be polluting the Earth.

[tumbler]

Well, what I thought were becoming some pretty nice stars, turned out to be a bit of a mess when I did the cross-sections. While this method produced fairly round stars of VERY similar size, I was not pleased with the uniformity or symmetry of the layers. These stars would probably be changing color in a fairly chaotic manner. The inner white layer marks the first section where I used toro. inside that, it was a spray, dust, roll to coat the mung bean.

 

I'm happy these were inert comp. Back to the store for more baking soda to try again. Hey, at least I got almost no smalls

Edited November 12, 2014 by tumbler

[schroedinger]

Well they don't look bad for beginning.

 

But if you wan't to make color changinb stars, the way to go is to roll only about 2-3 mm then dry 'em. If the first stars are at the right point of size take a screen and a scope. Now after adding an increment scope out a bunch of stars (try to hit the place where the biggest stars accumulate) and screen (size) them. Chuck all stars that are to small back into the roller and repeat until nearly all stars have the right size (use the left overs for mines or similar, there is just no real worth in having the roller running for about 20 stars). Now let these dry good and size one time proper (e.g. you want the first color to be 8 to 8.5 mm than use a 8 mm screen in the step desribed before and now use an 8.5 and the 8 mm screen). You will find that with these method 90% of stars will have the desired size. Now repeat everything with the next color/changing delay.

 

Of course you can also just roll everything and screen the whole batch before switching colors but screening during rolling will yield more consistent star sizes.

[Blackthumb]

Small Tapioca prills work for me....dont over wet....

[MrB]

Well, what I thought were becoming some pretty nice stars, turned out to be a bit of a mess when I did the cross-sections. While this method produced fairly round stars of VERY similar size, I was not pleased with the uniformity or symmetry of the layers. These stars would probably be changing color in a fairly chaotic manner. The inner white layer marks the first section where I used toro. inside that, it was a spray, dust, roll to coat the mung bean.

 

I'm happy these were inert comp. Back to the store for more baking soda to try again. Hey, at least I got almost no smalls

 

I'm far from a pro at rolling stars, toro or not, but that, to me, looks like you were to much in a hurry. Less wet mix, make sure it coats the stars evenly. (Let it spin for a minute) then add the dry composition in tine increments.

At least thats what it looks like when i rush to much. Part of the problem is simply that we work with to small batches.Tutorials seam to assume that we are doing a couple of K stars at once. Or at least a few 100, of substantial size. thats why they can get away with adding cup fulls of wet/ dry mix.

"Easy does it" Good luck.

B!

[Mumbles]

...

 

I like the idea of building them up with a little clay first. Anything that gets them heavy certainly seems to help the process along nicely. It's remarkable how much finesse these traditional, non mechanized methods require. Thanks for your thoughts guys! Hopefully I'll have some good cross-section photos to share later on today.

 

One additional advantage to using large cores or ones built up with inert composition is that the center of the star stays very bright. Some stars can tend to fade out. By using a large core, or a built up core, there is still a lot of composition burning when it goes out.

[tumbler]

Thanks for your thoughts and tips, guys! I read about using large, heavy cores in Shimizu. He mentions using cut stars as cores to prevent the dimming effect. I guess the final stage of the burn would be more like a simple, screen sliced star. I have found that they can sometimes get dim towards the end as well though.

 

The tapioca idea is awesome! I'll give them a try this coming weekend. I can only imagine how hilarious I look wondering around the grocery store, looking for the smallest, roundest item they have. Even though I was not totally pleased with this result, I do feel like I'm getting the hang of rolling. I am able to keep the bowl clean. It really does seem like slowing down is the key to this. I'll post a similar photo of the next batch.

 

Again, thanks for the tips and pointers!

[schroedinger]

If you look for the smalest round thing, make sure to get some "solid" seeds like rape. Do not take something light and flimsy like mustard seed. 2-3 mm is a god size.