gloves

[Nessalco]

A couple things to consider.

 

PPE is always a trade off between dexterity and protection. It is possible to equip yourself so that you would be unfazed by any of the BP events we normally produce - but you'd be swaddled like the Stay-Puft Marshmallow man and only able to move slowly. You can wear almost nothing, and have no protection. <shrug>

 

Kevlar gloves are not intended to resist flash fires. They are abrasion and penetration resistant, and don't break down under exposure to moderate heat - but they are not intended for fire protection.

 

Nomex, however, is. An example of Nomex gloves is here.

 

Remember, though, that both Kevlar and Nomex are aramids, a synthetic fiber. They can and do accumulate static charges unless properly treated.

 

Kevin

[otto]

Nomex IIIA has a little Kevlar and an integral antistatic element as well. From the DuPont site: "A blend of 93% Nomex® with 5% Kevlar® and 2% antistatic fiber."

 

Other interesting stuff there as well, Check out the Thermo Man demonstration: http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/personal-protective-equipment/thermal-protective/videos/thermo-man-demonstration.html

 

Everything you wanted to know about thermal protection by the company that invented it.

[MrB]

Broken fingers just sucks, losing one is forever. If you only break your bones, no biggy (imo)

Thats what i figured as well.

So basically leather gloves with kevlar are sufficient?

I'm using Kevlar reinforced biking gloves. Got a couple of different varieties, depending on the dexterity i deem needed. Thicker cross version for the scary stuff, and think mountainbike flavor for when dextirity is needed (and getting rid of body heat is an issue)

 

Kevlar gloves are not intended to resist flash fires. They are abrasion and penetration resistant, and don't break down under exposure to moderate heat - but they are not intended for fire protection.

I pretend to feel safer knowing that there is a naturally fire resistant fabric between me and a possible accident, the kevlar reinforcement is inside of that, and outside the comfy inner skin of the gloves. It's by no means "fire proof" it's just there to provide me with protection long enough to get out of there / get the stuff of. As you said:

PPE is always a trade off between dexterity and protection. It is possible to equip yourself so that you would be unfazed by any of the BP events we normally produce - but you'd be swaddled like the Stay-Puft Marshmallow man and only able to move slowly. You can wear almost nothing, and have no protection. <shrug>

In my mind it all comes down to your PPE being easy enough to work with, and not cumbersome enough to make you elect not to use it. Ideally i would wear a full coverage, thick leather outfit 100% of the time, but i, just like so many others still work in a T-shirt every now and then...

B!

[dagabu]

I am wearing THESE gloves while making rockets, working with my TLUD and other hot surfaces. The wife steals them to do some grilling as well, while not perfect, they work well against heat.

 

Product Description

Superior 13 gauge, Rhovyl/ESD carbon-filament string-knit glove liner. At roughly half the cost of Nomex, Rhovyl will not drip, melt or adhere to the skin if exposed to heat or direct flame, a quality that is not affected by laundering. Light as nylon and exceptionally non absorbent, we have added ESD carbon filament for anti static properties. (Surface resistance rating between 10 to the 10th Ohms, to 10 to the 7th Ohms). Thin, seamless and soft, they provide the insulation and warmth of wool without the bulk or itchiness yet protect from both extreme heat and cold. Rhovyl is hypo allergenic and resists mildew and other destructive biological agents (sun, salt and mold). It is also easy care machine washable and quick drying so it also wicks moisture away from hands. The is a 13 gauge string knit Rhovyl/ESD carbon filament string knit glove liner, knit with THT (True Hand Technology) for a greater fit and reduced hand fatigue. Applications include petrochemical, oil workers, electronics, welding, gas companies, military, mining, EMS.

[modelrocket]

the last few posts are a lil hard for me to understand.

 

Basically what you guys are saying is that if you use kevlar+leather it will melt etc? Because I'd figure that the fire is so short pretty much anything will block that?

 

And @ nessalco, the gloves you wear are pretty much only protecting for flash fires? Because I'm looking for gloves for setting off the fireworks, so there will also be a pressure wave etc.

 

dexterity is also not that big of an issue, it aint hard to grab a firework and work a torch

 

I'd figure that the leather and kevlar stop the shrapnel and pressure wave + absorb a little of the shockwave and the leather also stops the fire?

 

I see my friends holding lighters to their leather gloves for +- 20 sec and the glove isn't burnt at all?

Edited November 3, 2014 by modelrocket

[Nessalco]

When handlighting fireworks, I wear a welder's glove on my right (fusee) hand, and my left hand is bare, to facilitate pulling fuse caps.

 

Kevin

[Arthur]

Hopefully any flash fire will have gone past a hand in the heat resistance time of a good nomex or leather glove -probably less than a second, it's this time that the burns take if you have no PPE. There is NO hand protection that will withstand 1gram of HE (a det or the like)

[modelrocket]

Hopefully any flash fire will have gone past a hand in the heat resistance time of a good nomex or leather glove -probably less than a second, it's this time that the burns take if you have no PPE. There is NO hand protection that will withstand 1gram of HE (a det or the like)

But will it withstand a 2 gram flash cracker? (thunderking bombette)

[ddewees]

Try it (not with your hand). Stick a salute in the glove and see what happens.

 

 

(Get video too)

[BurritoBandito]

Broken fingers just sucks, losing one is forever. If you only break your bones, no biggy (imo)

This isn't entirely true. My thumbs were both broken, and though they're still there, they may never regain their full range of motion. The problem is that any explosion that is strong enough to break your bones is very likely to cause soft tissue damage too. Then you also run into the issue where the kirschner wires used to immobilize the broken bones must be left in for months. If they have to run the wires through a knuckle, there is the possibility of having bone overgrow the joint. Edited November 4, 2014 by BurritoBandito

[MrB]

Basically what you guys are saying is that if you use kevlar+leather it will melt etc? Because I'd figure that the fire is so short pretty much anything will block that?

I have yet to see natural fibers "melt" Leather might catch fire, but it doesn't melt. Thats why i use the gloves i do. The kevlar could very well melt, but it's not exposed to the fire.

B!

[modelrocket]

Try it (not with your hand). Stick a salute in the glove and see what happens.

 

 

(Get video too)

im not that rich lol

[dagabu]

This whole discussion comes down to the issue of practicality. In my fire that lasted between three or four seconds with 22 pounds of very hot black powder, any portion of my body that was covered by a cotton sweatshirt, cotton jeans, cotton socks or any other clothing and or barrier such as my glasses stopped the effects of the fire reaching the skin causing permanent damage.

What you are looking for is a glove that would resist the initial impulse or pressure wave of an explosion, not a burn. Regretfully, even EOD does not have gloves with palm protection that will stop the pressure wave from destroying the soft tissue and bones beneath.

As a certified welder, gantlet type, all leather gloves that go past the wrist joint to the mid forearm are probably the very best protection you can buy for fire, flame and most any kind of pyrotechnic issues. There is no commercially available glove available to protect the palm against the pressure wave of an explosion.

Edited November 4, 2014 by dagabu

[nater]

Modelrocket, like Dag said, no gloves will protect you are holding a device in your palm that goes off. Did you read what I wrote about distance? You should never be in a position that you are holding a device when you light it. I had a commercial shell burst right next to my face several years ago. My foot was braced against the rack and I was leaning away and down from the mortar when the shell broke. My injuries were limited to a few second degree burns from lit stars where the heat radiated through my nomex hood. I also had bruises and dents ij my hardhat from the impact of the stars. I was wearing firefighter turnout gear, leather gloves, a nomex hood and a plastic hardhat with a chainsaw screen, safety glasses and ear muffs. (Pretty standard PPE while shooting a commercial show)

 

I wear the same leather which are wrist length with nomex cuffs and no kevlar inside burning buildings without too much heat radiating to my skin. When a fire gets too hot, the SCBA mask will melt before too much heat radiates through these gloves and the rest of our gear.

 

If you want to protect yourself while shooting fireworks, blue jeans, cotton tshirt, welding jacket, welding gloves, hard hat, safety glasses and ear plugs will be a good balance of protection from flame, debris, dexterity and comfort. You need to be able to move and for your body to cool down too.

[dagabu]

Modelrocket, like Dag said, no gloves will protect you are holding a device in your palm that goes off. Did you read what I wrote about distance? You should never be in a position that you are holding a device when you light it. I had a commercial shell burst right next to my face several years ago. My foot was braced against the rack and I was leaning away and down from the mortar when the shell broke. My injuries were limited to a few second degree burns from lit stars where the heat radiated through my nomex hood. I also had bruises and dents ij my hardhat from the impact of the stars. I was wearing firefighter turnout gear, leather gloves, a nomex hood and a plastic hardhat with a chainsaw screen, safety glasses and ear muffs. (Pretty standard PPE while shooting a commercial show)

 

I wear the same leather which are wrist length with nomex cuffs and no kevlar inside burning buildings without too much heat radiating to my skin. When a fire gets too hot, the SCBA mask will melt before too much heat radiates through these gloves and the rest of our gear.

 

If you want to protect yourself while shooting fireworks, blue jeans, cotton tshirt, welding jacket, welding gloves, hard hat, safety glasses and ear plugs will be a good balance of protection from flame, debris, dexterity and comfort. You need to be able to move and for your body to cool down too.

 

I love that last line, let me twist it to my beliefs:

 

Buy what you will wear, don't bother with gantlets if they are too hot to wear, a pair of thin goatskin gloves will protect you from fire enough to save you from 3rd or 4th degree burns. Of the 1000+ major burn survivors I met a couple weeks ago, there was NO discernible scarring where 1st and 2nd degree burns were but horrible disfigurements with 3rd and 4th. That is what you want to be saved from.

[Arthur]

Let's assume that you will find something too hot sometime in a pyro lifetime. Then you will want to be wearing the PPE that you have back in the car. I HOPE that the PPE I wear will reduce flash damage and maybe reduce projected burns from 3rd degree to 1st degree. Given that in the UK we fire mainly in the winter. There is a cotton layer next to me, a nomex layer over that and maybe overalls over that.

 

One important thing to remember is that a burn right round a limb (finger, arm or leg) is very bad news. A fully encircling burn can start the failure of circulation beyond the burn, ultimately risking amputation.

[nater]

3 summers ago I had to take a break in the middle of a show because I got too hot. It was my 7th hand lit show in 10 days with each day over 100 degrees. You do not want your PPE to give you heat stroke either. I do not intend to sound callous,but fireworks are dangerous. We can take measures to protect ourselves and minimize the risks, but we cannot eliminate them.

[dagabu]

3 summers ago I had to take a break in the middle of a show because I got too hot. It was my 7th hand lit show in 10 days with each day over 100 degrees. You do not want your PPE to give you heat stroke either. I do not intend to sound callous,but fireworks are dangerous. We can take measures to protect ourselves and minimize the risks, but we cannot eliminate them.

 

Amen brother!

[modelrocket]

thing is I'm not going to be shooting shows or anything O.o

 

I'm just afraid of my fingers if maybe an accident happens and a 2 gramish cracker bangs near my hand, so basically what you are all saying is that leather gloves will protect me sufficiently? I will obviously be wearing glasses, earplugs, a hat, a t shirt sweater and coat and jeans, maybe even a skimask but I'm not sure if the police allows those. (welding masks wouldn't be allowed either btw)

[modelrocket]

This whole discussion comes down to the issue of practicality. In my fire that lasted between three or four seconds with 22 pounds of very hot black powder, any portion of my body that was covered by a cotton sweatshirt, cotton jeans, cotton socks or any other clothing and or barrier such as my glasses stopped the effects of the fire reaching the skin causing permanent damage.

 

What you are looking for is a glove that would resist the initial impulse or pressure wave of an explosion, not a burn. Regretfully, even EOD does not have gloves with palm protection that will stop the pressure wave from destroying the soft tissue and bones beneath.

 

As a certified welder, gantlet type, all leather gloves that go past the wrist joint to the mid forearm are probably the very best protection you can buy for fire, flame and most any kind of pyrotechnic issues. There is no commercially available glove available to protect the palm against the pressure wave of an explosion.

btw I read that the eod doesn't wear gloves because anything they handle will blow your hands right off regardless of any gloves.

 

The eod doesn't handle 2 gram firecrackers, they handle real bombs

[nater]

Maybe you should not be making firecrackers then. I am done with this discussion.

[modelrocket]

Maybe you should not be making firecrackers then. I am done with this discussion.

I don't make firecrackers, I only make model rockets, this is for setting off comercial fireworks :3

[BurritoBandito]

2 grams of flag in a commercial firework? Sounds a bit dubious to me.

Consumer fireworks are the small fireworks usually sold at stands around the Fourth of July holiday. These include some small devices designed to produce audible effects, ground devices containing 50 mg or less of flash powder, and aerial devices containing 130 mg or less of flash powder. The Department of Transportation classifies consumer fireworks as UN0336, UN0337. ATF does not regulate the importation, distribution, or storage of completed consumer fireworks. However, any person manufacturing consumer fireworks for commercial use must obtain a Federal explosives manufacturers license. (Compliance with other Federal, State, and local agency regulations is required.)

 

Quoted from: https://www.atf.gov/content/explosives/explosives-industry/fireworks Edited November 5, 2014 by BurritoBandito

[Maserface]

He isnt from the USA

[modelrocket]

Im from belgium

 

max 2 gram in a cracker

 

lele, 50 mg flash max? ah, well then we fill the rest of the container with al flash :D:D::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Edited November 5, 2014 by modelrocket