Aerial Shells

[Richtee]

Man thats confusing. Let me try is with a 4 and a 2 and if it doesn't work then no one knows but me. Its like a little test just for fun.

 

Oh, you'll admit to it... if only to save us others the trouble- LOL! Good luck!

Edited August 11, 2008 by Richtee

[nath0r]

Man thats confusing. Let me try is with a 4 and a 2 and if it doesn't work then no one knows but me. Its like a little test just for fun.

 

i've actually got a 4" double petal shell waiting to fire, im not very optimistic about it as there seems to be very little burst in it. No harm in trying though.

 

http://www.apcforum.net/forums/uploads/1217876542/gallery_2490_3_8329.jpg

 

http://www.apcforum.net/forums/uploads/1217876542/gallery_2490_3_340.jpg

[Mumbles]

If you think what Karlos said is confusing, try reading Shimizu's explanation in FAST. Pages 245 to 258. The method with holes was adapted from simply using very thin hemispheres, which was adapted from the traditional method described by shimizu. At each step it becomes more time consuming. I'd expect at least around a half an hour to be spent on a shell in the traditional method. Like I've always said, do whatever works for you.

[Karlos]

Mumbles: Method by sleeves is game for amateur-maniacs, like me:-) But most easy method requires only one smaller hemisphere and paper for separration. Hemisphere work like shape-mold, and paper is covered around the hemisphere. When is second layer of burst in the shell(under smaller hemisphere), hemisphere is take off, and paper depression can be filled with stars:)

I know that you know about this, but Nath0r not:-)

 

nice

Bye.

[mormanman]

Yeah, nath0r thats the way I was planing on doing it. Then I saw the instructions on skylighter and could barely understand them LOL. So I'll make it launch it and tell you guys how it goes. The next time I go shooting with be on Jan 1st and I will be having a video camera. Wish me luck.

[Mumbles]

I've never gotten the method to work very well when making depressions and removing the hemisphere. At the time I was still using rice hulls, so perhaps that played a role. I can never compress them enough to hold their shape on the inner petal. Either the stars and burst are loose and possibly shifting, or the tapping process to settle everything messes with the symmetry. Oh w ell. I still have some things to try out to see if I can break my double petal curse streak that I've been having. I might even give the very traditional method a shot.

[nath0r]

Just after a bit of advice here

 

I'm planning on buying some crosette tooling from Wolter but just wondering what size would best suit 4 inch shells. I'm thinking something along the lines of ½" or ¾" but what would you guys recommend?

 

Cheers for any help.

[Frozentech]

Just after a bit of advice here

 

I'm planning on buying some crosette tooling from Wolter but just wondering what size would best suit 4 inch shells. I'm thinking something along the lines of ½" or ¾" but what would you guys recommend?

 

Cheers for any help.

 

3/4" - 1" are perfect in a 4" canister shell.

[nath0r]

3/4" - 1" are perfect in a 4" canister shell.

 

Sorry i should have said in my original post i am thinking of ball shells, but i guess 3/4" should be fine, thanks for your help.

 

Also just about to head out to my shoot site to launch my 4" double petal, im not too optimistic but well see what happens

 

video will follow shortly.

 

UPDATE!!!

 

The double petal was pretty much a complete failure haha, the inner petal completely failed to ignite and the outer petal was destroyed by the burst.

 

I'm definately going to try this again, i think my main problem was i used a helluva lot of flash in my break as i was concerned about there being very little space in there for burst. Next time i will use much less flash and probably some stronger stars, i used brocade stars as the outer petal and these were pretty weak. video is below

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZWUQDOfwUc

Edited August 15, 2008 by nath0r

[Karlos]

Nathor: Where are stars?

[mormanman]

It looks like dust was ignited lol. I thought it was a nice looking fail but a fail at that. Add more dextrin to the stars would be my suggestion, then prime them probably. I'm unsure though. I still am going to try that.

[nath0r]

Nathor: Where are stars?

 

The stars were Dave Buell's Brocades Horse Tail

 

Potassium Nitrate 36

Charcoal Airfloat 29

Charcoal, 80 mesh 14

Sulfur 9

Titanium, sponge, 40-80 mesh 7

Dextrin 5

 

Zmuro's 3" shell he posted a few pages back inspired me to try these out.

 

 

It looks like dust was ignited lol. I thought it was a nice looking fail but a fail at that. Add more dextrin to the stars would be my suggestion, then prime them probably. I'm unsure though. I still am going to try that.

 

Yeah it was a lot brighter in person too, and also created a helluva lot of fallout, you can hear my friend in the video saying "uh oh" when it stars hitting the ground, good job we've had lots of rain recently

 

I definatley think it will be worth trying this again now i have a feel for how to break the shell a little softer.

 

Thanks for the comments

[Richtee]

I definatley think it will be worth trying this again now i have a feel for how to break the shell a little softer.

 

Thanks for the comments

 

Seriously..look into the Swede thing... poly glue bound stars can't be crushed with a bootheel! I am still working on a salute WITH stars. Had limited success with these already. Goodly sized flash cannister with the poly stars...only got about 25% ignition, but a hotter prime might be the ticket... found whole chunks of stars as fallout. NOT broken.

[mormanman]

Wouldn't a salute with stars just be either a ground shell or aerial shell?

I'm interested now. I want to know what your thinking of?

[flying fish]

I think I've seen commercial "star salutes" before...at least on youtube. I believe the idea is that you use just as much flash as you would for a salute (meaning quite a lot), but then add some stars for enhanced visual effect.

[mormanman]

Sounds like a shell to me. A loud one but still a shell. What I'm doing that should be pretty cool is a flash bang. The first one will have to be a ground salute, sorry guys, but it should be similar to a Ti aerial salute. I may not even do the ground salute part now that I think about it.

 

Does it look like this?

This is what my Flash bang type thing I hope looks like, I'm using white star comp #1 I think.

I'll edit or post later what it is.

 

This is the comp.

White star #1

Source: rec.pyrotechnics

Comments:

Preparation:

 

Potassium Nitrate.................................58

Aluminum..........................................40

Dextrin...........................................2

Edited August 15, 2008 by mormanman

[flying fish]

This must have been what I was thinking of...

 

They look like flash salute shells at first because of the initial flash...but then star project from them. Yeah, I agree they fall under the classification of shells, but they probably also fall under the classification of salute based on they are probably about 80% flash. So they are 80% salute .

 

Not quite like spider shells, which also use flash, but probably not enough to be called a salute.

[Richtee]

I think I've seen commercial "star salutes" before...at least on youtube. I believe the idea is that you use just as much flash as you would for a salute (meaning quite a lot), but then add some stars for enhanced visual effect.

That's it... and the speed of the spread of course is amazing. The 2 problems that I have found are #1 Shattering the stars... the poly glue seems to address this. and #2, ignition.... "blown blind"- or maybe the deal is they spread so fast they "blow out"

[Richtee]

This must have been what I was thinking of...

 

Yeah... notice the fast bloom and big boom :{)

[Chris]

This must have been what I was thinking of...

 

They look like flash salute shells at first because of the initial flash...but then star project from them. Yeah, I agree they fall under the classification of shells, but they probably also fall under the classification of salute based on they are probably about 80% flash. So they are 80% salute .

 

Not quite like spider shells, which also use flash, but probably not enough to be called a salute.

 

 

That looks roughly like a 1" to 2" cake insert. The challenge with cakes is the limited space in the bombettes, or whatever you want to call them. There for, almost all Chinese cakes have exclusively flash as the burst charge in the inserts . The flash however is not ordinary fast burning 7/3 type, rather a slower 'dirty flash' -type, which burns considerably faster when enclosed in a casing than it does in open air. The construction is rather interesting. When dissecting a typical 1,5" cake insert, the content is suprisingly packed very tightly. I think this might be what you are looking for. You might wan't to consider a slow flash formula and contain the shell well. These types of small shells have a very large break, but I don't know what happens when the cal. grows from 2".

 

I have also made similar 2" shells with 7/3 flash coated on rice hulls in a 7:1 ratio. You might want to try that too.

[Mumbles]

At least from the sound, the double petal break didn't sound too hard. I just used a light green meal coating on those brocade stars and they lit just fine. You probably broke it a bit harder than I did too. They are solid though. I got them a little wetter than normal when cutting just to make sure everything stayed suspended. Bound with SGRS too, which seems to make some nice solid stars and gums it up to hold it together a bit better.

 

As for those "Star salutes". Most of the stars are probably based on a phenolic resin binder as a lot of chinese stars have moved to. You might also want to try a "negative prime". I can't remember the exact name for them, but they are pretty fuel rich. This utilizes the high rate of speed and atmospheric oxygen to burn rapidly igniting hard broken stars. There are a few given by Degn I think.

 

I know some people who have disected excalibur shells and the like, which are probably pretty similar to what you describe. A thick walled tube is rolled, about 1/8" around a 1" former. A clay plug is pressed in. This is drilled out to accept a time fuse. A mixture of stars, blackpowder and flash powder is all mixed together. This is pressed in with an arbor press consolidating into a solid unit. A Second clay plug is pressed in. The shell is then spiked, and pasted in with a larger amount of paper. He said this got the breaks just like the excaliburs. If anyone went to PGI 2007 in Fargo, these were the inserts in the winning roman candles that broke so big.

[PyroCanada]

What is the smallest dia aerial shell any of you have made?

 

I was thinking about trying to go for a 1/4 inch cylinder shell lol.

[mormanman]

Nothing smaller than 5/8" but that was for a mini insert in a 4" ball. I can tell you right now the smallest your going to want to make is a one inch can shell. There is a tutorial on the tutorial section. I hear its nice and if you like video tutorials NightHawkinLight has a good one on youtube. Just type his name. If you can't find it PM me and I'll get it for you.

[Richtee]

What is the smallest dia aerial shell any of you have made?

 

I was thinking about trying to go for a 1/4 inch cylinder shell lol.

 

Hmm welll..technically... I have made some "double voice" crackers. They have a black powder charge that lifts a mini <.25"> "shell" for another aerial bang. I use a thick walled .375 tube, and load with a hand wound flash cracker.

[PyroCanada]

would paper fuse work very good as a replacement for time fuse in a small aerial shell?