DIYMark Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Hmm Ive done some hand filing before and the product wasnt that good. What mesh would hand filing be (using a fine "mill saw bastard" type file?) Also just before seeing your post I was reading up on pyroguide and found out PVC can be added as a chlorine donor in nitrate (and perchlrate) star comps?! If this is true I could get some copper sulfate and make greenish stars! Could I make other colours using KNO3 as the oxidizier and PVC as the chlorine donor?
psyco_1322 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I believe the fillings would be close to 30 mesh. Or thats what I determinded some to be once. Not sure there is any comps like that. Thats why I said you might have to experiment to see what works. Smoke stars can be made by NC binding 60/40 smoke comp and cutting into stars.
frogy Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I don't believe Copper Sulfate works as a KNO3-usable coloring agent... I know it can be used as a substitute for Paris Green in some AP comps though... It may be possible to heat it to about 650°C and decompose it into CuO, etc. The Pentahydride is reduced completely to anhydrous (there's a few stages of hydration) at about 250°C, you'll notice the color change from Blue -> Green... I'm not sure of the decomposition reaction...Most Sulfates do not decompose into oxygen, so SO2 + O2 is probably wrong... My best guess:2CuSO4 -> 2CuO + 2SO3 I'll have to try those smoke stars... They sound fun
DIYMark Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I tried R Candy "pellets" as smoke stars in a simple rocket header but they either didn't ignite (doubt it) or were used up in the burst. I may try them again in a proper shell casing.
psyco_1322 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I made some up to see if I could resist the tendancey for the comp to absorb water. They came out a lot more brittle than thought, or not well bound, they crumble very easy. I think some thicker NC would do the trick. So I loaded up what I had left into a mine early today and blew them into the air think they would instantly dust and I'd get a giant smoke cloud. Suprisingly they didnt and they went clear to appex and the kinda jetted around a bit and burned out.
frogy Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Hmm... I made a 2.5" shell with a bunch of RCandy Chunks and a flash powder\BP break... It just make one giant cloud of smoke instead of streams of smoke... I have to say that for a very simple smoke-type effect, Colored Chalk (ground up sidewalk chalk or Carpenters? chalk) filled full in a shell with 5 grams of flash makes a very cool effect.
Richtee Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Generally the fiberglass tape is used with plastic shells. I personally find it sticks better than paper. I've seen a few paper canister shells spiked with it, and most have flower potted. I just don't think it offers the same characteristics as string and pasted paper. However I have heard from several manufacturers that they used the tape in some tests and achieved good results with trial and error. Most of their tests were of course with plastic ball shells, but a few canisters. They said that the cost and time saved were not worth it enough for it to be practical. With the mass shot 3" and 4" shells it might work out alright though as the performance is not as critical, and the huge numbers of them may make it impractical to spike with string and paste.Well, I ran out of tape last night while making up my 4Th supplies. I had had a few sodas- seems to make the time pass while going thru rolls of tape. Sooo..not wanting to drive to get more I got to drin...err thinking... <Uh oo> I have a can of the good spray adhesive, 3M 77 I believe. They use it to hold formica down to countertops and other hi-stick apps. Anyway, I cut strips of thin craft, laid them out and dusted one side of them, and then did the shell. Applied one covering, rubbed down the paper tight- dusted shell again...etc. for about 5 wraps. Seems to work well... just another angle I guess.
psyco_1322 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Ive used that spray adhesive for a few pyro needs also. Ive used it to roll some rocket tubes, but it doesnt make a very study tube. Then for some quick need couplers for joining tubes/headers and the like. I tryed pasting a shell with it and thought I have good sucess, but the shell was experimently and it failed.
frogy Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I mixed some spray adhesives with KClO4 and it make a very high-temp burning fuse.... It would like with Visco, yet ignite Thermite in seconds.. I actually coated Visco in Silicone\KClO4, or whatever adhesive was used in the spray.
psyco_1322 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Just sprayed the fuse and dipped into KClO4 or did you spray a big glob out and mix it up?
frogy Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 It's mixed very similar to the way that the Polyurethane fuse that Swede was experimenting with was mixed... Mix the spray adhesive about 70:30 or 75:25 with screened (200 mesh) KClO4 until it forms a pasty material, then put the mixture onto some visco fuse... My Chinese visco burns extremely hot, nearly lighting thermite by itself, so I don't know if other Viscos will require a prime between the pasty and fuse or not... From what I remember, I think the adhesive balled-up with the KClO4, forming a dough... We may have thinned the dough in Acetone, but I can't remember. Oh and PS: Here's a FLV of my Veline Blue... the quality is pretty bad, but you can definitely see a rich blue in the smoke trail.http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f320/fro...=velineblue.flv The red came out perfect, though it didn't show in the video, and wasn't primed very well... The green also looked good, though it seemed quite pale, I have been told before that veline green was pretty bad... I guess I'll be pumping the rest of my veline mixes and then making some Shimizu Organic Green. It seems that the Veline mixes ignite very easily... I don't see why they are even "super-primed"... Even un-primed test stars would ignite by the flame of a burning punk stick.
Mumbles Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I'd suggest a metallic green. The metal fueled veline stars will likely over power the organic green if they are used in the same device.
frogy Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Hmm. Maybe the stars will look better when paired together... Have you noticed that the Veline green is rather pale? I'm not sure of what pale is defined as, but the color seems unsaturated... Too bright for green. Shimizu Green looks nice though How do most people on here prime their MgAl stars? Superprime, Thermite, Green Mix? I have to say that regular meal would even work for my Veline. Possibly it does work because I use Willow charcoal and my BP burns very hot.
FrKoNaLeaSh1010 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I would have to agree. The organic shimizu green using kclo4 and bano3 was one of my favorites i ever made.
frogy Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 This is the Organic comp I love... I don't know if it is the same you are using or not. BaNO3: 28.3KClO4: 47.2PVC: 5.87Red Gum: 14.2Dextrin: 5.6 The original comp calls for 4.7% Parlon, and SGRS, but the PVC\Dextrin substitution works great for me.
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Seems to be an easy green to make, thanks for sharing.
Bonny Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Hmm. Maybe the stars will look better when paired together... Have you noticed that the Veline green is rather pale? I'm not sure of what pale is defined as, but the color seems unsaturated... Too bright for green. Shimizu Green looks nice though How do most people on here prime their MgAl stars? Superprime, Thermite, Green Mix? I have to say that regular meal would even work for my Veline. Possibly it does work because I use Willow charcoal and my BP burns very hot. For my veline and other perc stars I use a layer of this veling style prime:KClO4-62C-22MgAl (200M)-7Dextrin-4Al (dark)-3CuO-2+2 or 3 % woodmeal (I use sawdust 40mesh I think)Followed with a layer of BP/meal/greenmix whatever I have handy. I have tested a universal prime that is greenmix with some Al and Si added and it lit veline blues with no trouble.
FrKoNaLeaSh1010 Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Frogy those are all the chems in the Shimizu one but I dont remember the exact ratio off the top of my head. I can also agree with the pvc parlon substitution as I have both and they are pretty much interchangeable in most comps if you make the slight adjustment. I do believe there were some comps you couldn't do that with though due to parlons fire retardant properties. I also only reserved dextrin for charcoal or metal flitter stars. I always used red gum for colors usually but i take your word that the dextrin could still be used I just heard rumors that the dextrin washes out the color a little bit dont know on the truth behind that but i always used red gum as the binder for colors.
Mumbles Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Saran is my personal favorite, but yes in most colors they are pretty much interchangable plus or minus a percent or two. I usually just do a "chlorine for chlorine" swap. IE for every gram of Parlon in a comp I use 1.2 grams of PVC(68%/57%). Parlon and Saran are close enough I don't bother, and as such the 1:1.2 ratio holds true for PVC for Saran. I really don't like PVC actually, too staticy. Saran in all my colored stars except blue and purple where I use Parlon. I have all three bulk so acquisition does not play a role really.
frogy Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Saran\Pure PVDC is probably the best Chlorine donor in my opinion... Parlon makes me angry for some reason, other than the $10/lb. price tag... PVC is very staticy, but I can't complain for the great color it seems to make for me at $5/lb. I normally screen it with my KClO4 and Color donor first, and it seems to integrate very quickly... Pretty odd that my POS, stubborn SrCO3 integrates nearly instantly with stubborn, staticy PVC. I guess (-) + (-) = (+) If only all two POS chemicals made a good combination. I normally use a 1:1.25 replacement for Parlon:PVC, though Parlon is normally closer to 68% Chlorine than 70%... I see no point in adding extra oxidizer, as Parlon is more of a binder\fire retardant than PVC, it seems to work out fine without any balancing. I find that swapping nearly everything stoichometrically works well... BaCO3 in place of SrCO3 normally makes a pale green though, the addition of about a 2:3 BaNO3 replacement as the oxidizer normally works.
pudidotdk Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Can Saran Wrap used for microwaves (PVCD) be used for saran? I have found it dissolves a little in acetone, it's not much, but I would think I could add this solution to the mixture to dampen it. Have searched long for saran powder, if anyone have a source within Europe I'd be glad. I hate to swap things not knowing if it perform equally as well.
pudidotdk Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Not the ordinary which is PE, but the stuff for microwaves says PVDC.
Deafaid Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 i need a fast answer to this random question.What is the best size for pumped stars for 3" shells?i can choose between 6-12 mm
Richtee Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 i need a fast answer to this random question.What is the best size for pumped stars for 3" shells?i can choose between 6-12 mmDepends on the comp's burn time I'd say. Just to be difficult... 3/8 inch heh.
Recommended Posts