Aerial Shells

[psyco_1322]

Sad for the palm destruction,

 

lol @ the yellow glitter.

 

The 8in kinda looked liked it worked, it had some kinda ring there, it was just on its side. But then maybe all the stars didnt light.

 

Hay what program do you use to put title and things on those videos?

 

 

On the other hand I made up about 300g of flaming shit comp, made some stars to test as this is the first time with this comp, and they left a nice effect behind but the stars came crashing to the ground as big glowing chunks of crap. They hadnt burnt up all the way, but they were dry. So I accidently added 100g of extra KNO3 to the comp while making some win20 up, the containers look the same, I just grabed the wrong one. So I made up some more stars with and they seem to burn a bit better on tests. I pu them in a 3" and its getting shot soon. Any idea whats wrong with the stuff? Past experiences?

[psyco_1322]

Your kinding right? That didnt look like much more than prime burning off. Although it probably wasnt. That yellow sucked, why would you wanna use some screwed up yellow glitter, UN has a yellow on their site use that. And there was that strange reappearing of the stars after they went out for a bit.

[idigital]

Those were very nice shells. I am curious on the size of the 209 primers. I am looking at using some primers instead of dragon eggs. I am still working on perfecting dragon eggs. When I test them on the ground they work fine, but in the air they don't seem to "sizzle" just right.

 

I just ran across an effect that I am trying to figure out. Check out the video, it is the 3rd shell. You can see the small very dim stars spreading out and then they explode into what reminds me of Ti, but not sure how they did it. Here is the video link...

 

mms://wm.vitalstreamcdn.com/fireworks_vitalstream_com/G-042.wmv

 

It is the 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 12th shell. What is that effect? You have to copy and paste the address in your broswer to view video.

 

Idigital

[qwezxc12]

....In fact I want to speak up for the modified Lancaster Yellow, the color was great (even if a bit short to see ). I'd like to slow that comp down a bit and try it as comet. IIRC you just swapped sodium oxalate for cryolite? 

Too bad for the palm shell, on the other hand not too bad for a first try. Were the green comets made of the emerald green comp?

Hope that were not too many questions...

 

BlueSquib,

 

Thanks for the comments...The quick yellowish burn (right after the shell broke) was the BP (greenmix) prime burning off. The few stars that did manage to light are the 11 feeble orangey-yellow ones visible between 10-11 seconds into the video. And yes, the only mod I made to the formula was to swap Cryolite for the Sodium Oxalate...I was surprised at how terrible the burn rate and light output was for the stars; Even if they did all light, the stars would have been too dim to enjoy IMHO. I only used a greenmeal prime as I thought a star comprised of 70% BP would light easily. The cryolite really changed the composition for the worse. I can't recommend it unless you want to do lots of formula tweaking and stargun tests.

 

You may remember in some past shells, for an easy yellow I used a NaNO3 BP based comp with some small (5%) additional fine flake or atomized aluminum (for brightness) and maybe 7% additional cryolite (for color saturation). Again, I don't know why this sucked so bad - I would have thought it would at least make a decent yellow.

 

The comets were emerald green with some added Ti and -36 mesh charcoal (not enough I guess - the tails were way to sparse). I used the green because I had some unbound comp leftover from a previous shell and thought I would use it up. I will try again with a more vigorous formula, maybe like the resin bound Perchlorate comets I tried before: Yellow-Green 2in comet. Maybe I can either lower the oxidizer % or tape the top and sides to slow them down a little.

 

Hay what program do you use to put title and things on those videos?

I use Adobe Premier 2.0. You can also use Windows Movie Maker (built into windows XP) for free.

[qwezxc12]

Gottcha...please keep us informed with any miracles you may perform on that yellow

[psyco_1322]

Anyone tryed the Lancaster Electric Streamer?

[qwezxc12]

This is from November...I never got around to posting it. I wanted to try to emulate a "ring" salute I saw in a video somewhere. Instead of just adding the usual +5-10% Ti to a salute, I "painted" the inside of a plastic 2in can with PVC cement and shook the can full of Ti sponge, letting the granules adhere in a ring inside the can. I hoped that way they would burn on the outer edge of the burst, rather then in a clump distributed throughout the flash.

 

It's probably reinventing the wheel, but it worked. You can see the dough-nut shaped break of the Ti clearly in the video:

Ti Ring Salute

 

It was only 15g and minimally confined to boot...I'll be replicating it as a 50g 3in can with more confinement as soon as I get back home. I may also screen my Ti and only use the largest mesh granules to make the effect more obvious. I may also try it with other grades of metal (iron filings, FeTi, etc.) Should look cool.

 

Is this standard practice? Do other people do it this way?

[FrankRizzo]

"He who shall not be named" was doing this at the last WWB, using the same large shrink wrap cores that Cplmac uses for his big whistle rockets. There was some HD video posted by Bob Forward on rec.pyro last year. It's an AWESOME effect...especially with a couple pounds of flash!

 

I think the good Dr. used spray adhesive on the inside of the tube, then tumbled the titanium sponge around in the inside before dumping out the excess.

 

EDIT: Here's a low res version of the complete WWB 2006 video he put together. The on-topic bits are ~7:09 & 12:42

[qwezxc12]

5" x 26" salute! Holy Sh t! I'm inspired to say the least...well it's nice to know that even if I'm re-inventing the wheel, at least it came out round

[crazyboy25]

OH MY GOD. for 10 seconds i trhought the tube was the MORTAR not the salute

 

 

 

wait you mean dr.boom?

 

 

 

 

EDIT: i can't wait until i turn 18/21 so i can join a pyro club/get licensed

[Mumbles]

Dr. X I believe is the name in question. There are many a story about him. All entertaining. He brought that 12" bottom shot with 48lbs of flash to the PGI this year and supplies the hourly salutes, or the ones to signify the opening of the B line, or however they do it.

 

I had a rather scary incident at the 2006 PGI. I was sitting out on the B line. A guy comes up with a 4" salute, around 24" long, jet black. 7lbs of flash. Pay attention to the color as it becomes important in a moment. So he gets the OK to shoot it, sets it up fires it. A few seconds pass no boom, a few more pass, still no boom. Dud obviously. So about this time it is around the time one should be taking cover. Jet black shell at night is a bit hard to see. I hear it come down no more than 20 feet behind myself and another gentleman. We go hang out behind the dumpsters for 45 min or so just so it's safe.

[psyco_1322]

Dr.X? Can someone elaborate on this? Person, group, company, psychopath? Heard a lot but didnt learn a lot.

 

That would have been hella scary to have that thing land beside you! I seen some really scary shells at the convention this year. Hard to describe but I'll find a video of one that someone sneaked into the mortars over by the rocket range. I just happened to see the previous one and decided to start filming, then it goes off to my left outta the blue. They have bottom shots that come almost to the ground, this one was right above this dudes head.<The that lit it persumably.(sp?)

[qwezxc12]

Dr. X I believe is the name in question.  There are many a story about him.  All entertaining.  He brought that 12" bottom shot with 48lbs of flash to the PGI this year.....

48 lbs, huh? I wonder if he observed the advice of never making more then 10g at a time and diapered 2,184 batches for that shell..."just to be safe"

 

Seriously Frank or Mumbles, do you know what is used for endcaps on those shrinkwrap roll cores? What's the preferred method of attaching them and how heavily are they spiked / pasted in? These questions of course, are purely academic...I would never dream of making salutes this large

 

Thx.

[Mumbles]

But if I tell you more it ruins the mystique. Frankly I'm not even sure what to believe and what not to. I've heard a lot of stories as well. There are lots of them floating around. He has a group of workers that produce a lot of stuff. I know a few of them. Last I heard Dr. X is a short little mexican fellow. He comes to the plant once a year, pulling up in a limo with many pretty girls accompanying him.

 

Dr. X salutes are famous for being the loudest around. There is something special they do to make them so, of which I cannot divulge. I heard at the first PGI they attended they almost got kicked out because safety thought they were packed with High explosives.

 

As far as salute details. I believe the standard way of closing things like this is with an end cap recessed inside of the tube, with flat end disks over the top. Alternatively, some sort of filler, such as saw dust, is packed in for around 1/2" on the top and bottom, then end disks the OD of the tube are placed over the top, and spiked vertically. I believe the disks are normally glued on with some sort of adhesive. Multiple disks are not unheard of. I'd spike it with a little less than normal verticals. Say around 3x the nominal size. So for 4" salutes, I'd use 12 or so. More wont hurt. The shell is then pasted in as normal, with the number of layers equalling the nominal shell diameter(4 layers in the case of a 4" shell). The thick tubing is what provides most of the confinement. The spiking and pasting is typically solely for fire containment purposes, and to provide a bit of resistance out the ends to build up the pressure.

 

Theoretically speaking, should I make something like this, I would use bands of pasted paper to wrap around the corner of the shell around the junction of the end disk and tube. Paper tape also works. It is just for an added security in fire proofing. The lifted end (which is never the fused end) should probably have a few extra disks just to provide a good solid lifting surface. 3-4 disks should do.

 

Oh, BTW, the good doctor makes flash 200lbs at a time in a remote cement mixer. There are some really interesting stories I've heard from these guys.

[asilentbob]

Lol yeah I'll have to remember to ask my aerial salute loving contact about Dr.X stuff if i end up going and seeing him at the next PAT event. I'm essentially 95% sure he would know a ton about it... but then i don't know if he would tell me much... you know... to keep the mystique around.

 

I haven't heard much.

I have heard that its more of a way of building shells and a frame of mind than a single person. And I have heard that they are all painted very dark black with a fat spollette. And it appears they are all painted black... and do have nice spollettes.

[oskarchem]

Right so here is my first shell, It should be a canister shell, I haven't finished spiking it just yet, but tell me waht you think, If I'm correct the lifting charge should be minimum 16% of the toutal weight of the shell?

Thanks

 

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6301/cimg1119zj3.th.jpg

[Mumbles]

Lift weight is 1/16, not 16%. For something this small, you may want to go somewhere in the vicinity of 10% though.

 

Do the vertical spikings first. The horizontal spikings then tighten up the verticals. The fuse is WAY too long assuming that is for timing. Also, you need to spike it harder. you need to physically make the string bite into the shell. It should deform from pulling on the strings, making it tighter. When you squeeze the shell, there should be no give at all, rock hard. You may also want to consider soaking the string in glue or paste. The string will then shrink and bite tighter. Believe it or not, but it helps the string from slipping off the shell despite being wet.

[Zmuro]

3in Round Shell C6 to FlashCore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZNAOEQmVw

3in Round Shell Winokur 20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0k77IFAoes

[qwezxc12]

Nicely done on the flashcores. Good break too.

[Zmuro]

I dont't know what is wrong with W20 stars. They burn too quick and dont' flash at all. Does anyone know what's wrong. I used standar formula. For flashcores I used potassium nitrate based flash.

[Mumbles]

Mind listing the formula you used for the glitter? It might be a simple error in the formula. Writing a 5 where it should have been a 4, etc. Also, if you ball milled it or used too fine or coarse of metal, it would also give the same problems. You want the glitter to be slaggy, and thus milling would counteract this. Even extensive milling shouldn't have given that bad of results though.

[oskarchem]

Yeah, ok thanks for the advice, I know the fuse is way to long, I took some fuse out of a fire cracker since I had no more, I will cut it.

[Zmuro]

I used this W20 formula:

48.00% Potassium Nitrate

17.00% Sulfur

12.00% Magnalium (-200 mesh)

10.00% Charcoal (airfloat)

5.00% Sodium Bicarbonate

4.00% Iron Oxide (red)

4.00% Dextrin

 

I ball milled it about 3 hours and magnalium was 270 mesh.

[qwezxc12]

I have two guesses:

 

One would be the fact that you ballmilled it so long...3 hours is long enough to make good BP. Did you actually ballmill it with the MgAl in the mill? I hope not. You chems should be reasonably fine, say 40 or 60 mesh. Milling a glitter that fine could kill it.

 

The second issue might be the size of your MgAl. Passfire lists a coarser breakdown of the MgAl mesh sizes for Win20. You can see that much of the MgAl is lower mesh:

16.5% +325 mesh

22.5% 200-325 mesh

32% 120-200 mesh

29% 50-80 mesh

 

Next time I'd just screen the mix together. If your chems are lumpy or too coarse, maybe just mill the KNO3, S and C for 15min to get them incorporated, then screen in the remainder.

[Zmuro]

I didn't ball mill it with MgAl, that would be stupid thing to do. Thanks for answer.