Aerial Shells

[qwezxc12]

...but the comp you posted had some weird stuff if i remember ...

??? What comp - what wierd stuff?

[crazyboy25]

not weird stuf just silcon and other stuff that i dont have so is there a prime with only BP and MgAl that works on emerald green and ruby red stars without step priming? if not ill just use veline superprime

[Mumbles]

Use the Veline prime.

[asilentbob]

So... finally got a pic of my 4" shell... I'm calling him Jerry... As in Tom and Jerry...

 

http://i20.tinypic.com/9uap9w.jpg

 

Its a sparse breaks of old crappily frail pumped 3/4" win20 stars with 2 1-3/4" rising shells with around 1/4" pumped win20 stars (also crappy) and there is a 3/4" win20 rising comet (also crappy.) ... But there is no way that you can say that the shell looks crappy. Am I right?

 

Hopefully ill have enough time to make another one or 2 before this shoot this weekend... Using my freshly made modified win20 pumped stars and/or crossetts... I just gotta find some around 3/4" OD paper disks... or make a punch or something to make a bunch (sharpened 3/4" Cu pipe perhaps?)... then test some crossetts to get them breakin!

 

(Cross-posted to random thread)

[lnstantkarma]

Okay just launched my third shell, red chrysanthemum.

Problems were:

Some stars were blown blind

Burst was uneven maybe b/c^^ or I should use a flash bag

The color wasn't very visible just looked like red with gold sparks

 

The only solutions I can think of was change my priming method, I just keep rolling on comp until the stars look like they have enough, then cut one open to check then roll on bp the next day

As for the color problem the stars looked great when I shot them 20 or so feet from the ground should I make them bigger for my 3 inch shell? now they are at 1/4 inch and I was using the veline red

[Mumbles]

Well, before we can help, we do need a bit more information. Specifically, what were you bursting with, and what kind of shell? (plastic ball, paper ball, canister, etc)

 

From looking at the veline red color, it appears that it would suck. I never was able to get a really good red off of SrCO3 alone. Try something like this:

 

Strontium Nitrate 50

Parlon 18

Magnalium, granular, -325 mesh 12

Potassium Perchlorate 8

Charcoal Airfloat 5

Sulfur 5

Dextrin 5

Red Gum 2

 

 

Other than that, I'm not sure what to tell you. If you're already blowing stars blind, using a flash bag certainly wont help at all. The priming method is ambigous too. Please define how you determine when the stars have "enough" prime. I usually go until the surface is completely covered.

[lnstantkarma]

The reason I think I need to change my burst is that I don't exactly have one, just the shell filled with bp covered corn cob. My pasting is fairly thick 5 layers on my paper shell with the 3-strip method, any more and the shell probably won't fit the mortar. (3 inch shell)

 

The issue with my priming is I don't really know how thick the layer should be I go until it's covered of course but I don't know if thats good enough.

 

Lastly the problem with the color, I have some strontium nitrate around so I'll try that but the veline stars look just fine when they are fired alone from the ground but in a shell they look kind of washed out. Is this because of the height difference? ive just never heard of that but it makes sense

 

and thanks for helping me mumbles, I can't think of one time you weren't on top of one of my questions right away

[Mumbles]

Usually with stars it's the other way around. Washed out up close, but fine in the air. It could be that the color saturation is relatively low, and is thus being diluted down at far distances. This would be consistent with all the SrCO3 colors I've worked with. They look reasonably red up close, but kind of pinkish in the air. Trust me on the ruby red star(the formula I gave). It is one of the best reds I have ever made. Beautiful deep vibrant red color.

 

Are you lining the shell with stars, or just mixing the burst and stars in randomly? Not lining the walls will give poorer symmetry. I would also suggest, if you're not doing so, to use a tissue paper barrier between the burst and the stars. This keeps the stars from migrating, and hurting the symmetry. The pasting sound pretty good. You may indeed need a harder burst to get good symmetry. H3, possibly KP, or adding flash/whistle to your BP covered corn cob should all work. I'd suggest working with charcoal streamers or glitters until you can get the symmetry aspect down. It takes one variable out of it, as they light pretty easily. You may want to try adding more BP to the corn cob, or getting a different carrier like rice hulls or vermiculite or popped popcorn. The rice hulls are cheap and everywhere. They are sold from homebrew stores. You probably have one less than 30 miles away, but age may be an issue for some. Many online sources exist. Rice crispies could be an option too. They are some what smaller than the generic puffed rice, so may be more suited to 3" shells. Puffed rice does shrink, but I don't know if it could be considered small enough for 3" shells.

 

You may also want to give green meal BP a try for priming. I've never had a priming issue with veline super prime with green meal. It may be that if you're using milled BP, that it is burning too fast and not lighting the prime. The green meal burns slower with some more slag. Addition of a few percent MgAl to the milled BP may help if you choose to continue down that path.

[lnstantkarma]

I do put my stars against the walls with a tissue paper barrier, I would like to make some glitter stars or streamers, so far I have airfloat charcoal, and 200 mesh mgAl what mesh size of charcoal would I want that would cover as many streamer formulas as possible? And I don't know much about glitter formulas.

And I'll try green meal next time but I really like my corn cob and Ill look into H3 or KP maybe end up using flash

actually nevermind I just found most formulas can use airfloat but I dont have SGRS can I use dextrin instead? and how much

[Mumbles]

Yes, you can use dextrin instead of SGRS. Use around 5% dextrin.

 

For shells less than 6", I wouldn't suggest using anything but airfloat C. Long hanging effects are my favorite. Firefly, brocade, etc. I often have sparks hitting trees and such. They really can hang for a long time. With 3" shells, I wouldn't dream of using anything with 80 mesh charcoal. Not saying that I haven't done it, but it wasn't a good idea.

 

Glitters are pretty easy. The most basic form is black powder with aluminum. Just BP with al isn't going to be much more than a streamer. All in all more sulfur is normally added, and KNO3 is reduced. There are several glitters you can amke with the chemicals you have.

 

This comes from Eric Hunkins gathered off of rec.pyro

50% Potassium Nitrate

20% Sulfur

6% Sodium Bicarbonate

4% Dextrin

10% Magnalium

10% Charcoal

 

Here are two more by winokur that could work for you. One requires Iron Oxide, which is more or less rust.

 

Winokur #19

 

Potassium Nitrate 50

Sulfur 20

Charcoal Airfloat 10

Magnalium Granular -200 mesh 10

Sodium Bicarbonate 6

Dextrin 4

 

Coarse gold glitter with short tail and moderate density. The advantage is that it doesn't contain antimony trisulfide, making it a cheaper glitter comp.

 

Winokur #20

 

Potassium Nitrate 48

Sulfur 17

Magnalium Granular -200 mesh 12

Charcoal Airfloat 10

Sodium Bicarbonate 5

Iron (III) Oxide, red 4

Dextrin 4

 

Gold glitter similar to Win 19, with very long delay creating more of a gold strobe effect. Note the absence of antimony.

 

 

There is another formula called "Better Pearl" that I suspect one cound substitute in MgAl. It gives kind of a shimmering tail.

 

Potassium Nitrate 47

Sulfur 18

Barium Nitrate 10

Charcoal Airfloat 10

Aluminum, atom, spher, 400 mesh, 14 micron 10

Dextrin 5

 

 

 

All of the above stars light pretty well. Still a dusting with green meal never hurts.

[psyco_1322]

Anyone have a red comp thats doesnt contain strontium nitrate but is based off lithium carbonate?

 

Oh and how does SGRS compare to dextrin, I bought some but not sure if I wanna just start playing with it or ask first. I heard is dries harder and uses less water, is that a noticable thing? Less water usage? And if you replace dextrin with it is there a certain percentage less that should be used? Thanks all.

 

Oh theres some new pics of a 1lb nozzle less bp rocket with a 3" header and construction pics in my nozzle-less subfolder on my PB, plus a failed attempt at lauching one of those lampare bottles.

[''']

I use this formula for red stars:

 

Lancaster

 

potassium perchlorate 70

strontium carbonate 9

red gum 15

charcoal 2

dextrin 4

 

It works fine for me .

 

Have a nice day.

[deadman]

I've always heard that, that particular star comp was rather bland, but never tried it myself. Strontium Nitrate is rather easy to come by (in America at least) and produces above par results with Mg and MgAl based star comps. I believe it would be well worth your while to get at least a small supply.

[psyco_1322]

I just want to know if there's a star comp with lithium carbonate in it. I have strontium carbonate and can use it no problem. Lithium is supposed to half a distinctive dark red color.

[deadman]

I always thought that in solid comps that lithium carbonate was supposed to have a very dull pinkish color. I know chlorine salts of lithium put directly into a methane flame have a distinct red color, but I am pretty sure they do poorly in stars. After searching a few formularies all I've found was a rather sketchy flash formula that use lithium carbonate, and another flash that used lithium perchlorate.

[Mumbles]

Lithium does indeed produce a very good red color. Much more pure red than the SrCl spectra. The problem is that it is very pale, and could potentially be over powered by, say potassium. Potassium burns purpleish, so it may not be all bad. I don't have any stock formulas containing it, but here is where I would start. It's a modification of the lancaster formula, which is a modification from Shimizu, which is probably a modification from some sort of Weingart formulation.

 

potassium perchlorate 70

Liithium carbonate 10

shellac 15

dextrin 5

 

I replaced the RG with shellac, as it tends to give a bit cleaner colors. I also removed carbon to remove any sort of background C spectra. Shellac and Dextrin both burn pretty completely, and any free C is rare.

 

After that I would perhaps start replacing, 1 part at a time with saran. I'm not sure how chlorine plays into the effect.

 

There are several things about the Li spectra I don't know. If you know them, or could figure them out, it would be helpful.

 

What temperatures does Li emit red at?

Is there a molecule emitter or an atomic emitter?

Does chlorine play a role? helpful or harmful?

 

 

With all this being said, the relatively dim color may reduce lithium's effect to all but close range applications. The addition of metal(less than 5%) may help to brighten it up. Mg or MgAl being prefered.

[Mumbles]

I built some comet shells lately and was hoping to get some help. They were 5" canisters with 1" comets, around 11 in a ring and 4 high. Anyway, I built them just like any other comet shell I've made. It was broken with 70-30 Perc-charcoal with 5% dichromate on puffed rice. The comets were better pearl. Turns out better pearl doesn't light as easily as I thought. I blew most of the comets blind, and blew a bunch of stars of them blind too.

 

The stars I can just prime with green meal or a green meal based prime w/ metals or silicon. The comets form a new problem. They fit tight into the canisters. If I primed them as normal, they wouldn't fit. Is there anyway to prime them without compromising the fit? About the only thing I've heard is to paint some BP slurry on one side and place the prime side toward the inner burst. Think this would work, or are there any other methods that might be less time consuming?

[crazyboy25]

well you could load the shell like normal than pour a prime or mix of BP and MgAL or Al in between the comets so it completely surrounds all the comets

[Mumbles]

All the comets are packed in with saw dust or polverone while loading. Are you suggesting pouring in slurry or dry prime. It may actually work to paint on a thick NC soln onto the loaded comets, pour in some prime and shake it around.

[lnstantkarma]

Just launched my first shell that was successful enough to post a video of. It was a 3 in shell with tigertail stars and I attached a tigertail comet on last minute but you can see that went flying off right away, I'll attach it differently next time. hope my video works, im not good at this, if someone knows a better way i would appreciate it

here it is

[Pretty green flame]

Pretty cool. I wish i had your crowd, mine just keeps silent or they make stupid remarks. No enthusiastic screaming Anyway, keep up the good work, this was a very nice shell.

[psyco_1322]

Well I dont have any shellac, I do have saran resin but thats a chlorine donor isnt it? I do have some shitty red gum, the stuff just pisses me off. It always comes out to the surface of the stars, even when not over-wetted. I think it screws with their burning. Ill see what I can find out on your questions there.

 

Looked like awfull short tails on those TT stars, but other wise it was a nice shell. Must have been homemade lift, seening the fireball coming out the end of that gun! I on the other hand hate when people talk on my videos, I wanna hear my fireworks not my family and friends.

 

Anyone have about 5lbs of KClO4 at a fair price they wanna sell me? PM me. Thanks

[lnstantkarma]

I do have homemade lift I would use cannon grade bp if I could find where to buy it but anyway I think part of that is my comet breaking off. Next shell I'm definitely making my stars bigger.

and for a 3" shell is a 1" comet good?

Also I need to work on my burst, I'm thinking KP coated corn cob. I know pressure is a big factor with it and I think my pasting is good enough but does it light stars the same as blackpowder? because i just solved my problem with dead stars

oh and of course there is whistle but I would have to order some potassium benzoate so if its not that much better for my situation i would rather use KP

[Mumbles]

Your RG sound clumpy if it floats to the top. The unairmilled stuff is more annoying the more I use it. One should really sift it through a 60 or 80 mesh screen to get out the coarse stuff. The stuff that doesn't pass can be powdered further with a ball mill or a coffee grinder.

 

I'm not sure how saran will work. Judging from how the other alkali metals function, chlorine probably wont help it any. Never hurts to try, may keep the temperature down a bit.

[psyco_1322]

No its airmilled RG. Buy when I make say cut stars and chop them in half after dry you can see the outer edge has more RG the the rest, the solution of it tries to come out of the star, migrates toward the outside, when you make them.

 

Oh and if a comp has red gum and dextrin what are you supposed to use to bind it, Im guessing you just use water and the RG is just a fuel. Binding with the RG will just make it burn slower right? IE: the colored star comps the Un has on there site.