pudidotdk Posted July 14, 2007 Posted July 14, 2007 Actually I am... for pyroguide.com. I took a bunch of pictures while making it.Will start writing when the shell is fired.
flying fish Posted July 14, 2007 Posted July 14, 2007 Very nice shell. This is way above my "quick and dirty" approach to shells, and I admire your craftsmanship. Can't wait to see it in action! I'm addicted to plastic myself. It doesn't give as nice a break as paper (not anywhere's near for me anyway), but it is so easy to make plastic shells. And all I do for the tail is hot glue a star to the top.
Spider Posted July 14, 2007 Posted July 14, 2007 Yeah! Very nice, looks perfect.I often use plastc shells AND paste them:http://1click.pyroszene.net/file/336/kugeln.JPG Without any paper it looks so "cheap" Greets
gods knight Posted July 14, 2007 Posted July 14, 2007 Pudidotdk and Spider those shells are amazing did you make those hemes or are they plastic? and why didn't someone make a tutorial on how to make hemes? if there is one that would be great?
pudidotdk Posted July 14, 2007 Posted July 14, 2007 Mine were bought paper hemis (SupremePyro). I find making hemispheres is painful and time consuming. I'd rather spend my time on pasting and making the shell look good
Spider Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 This time the hemes were bought plastic hemes. But i just use them if I don't have the time to make them by myself. A second reason is that it is something like "additional pasting" to make them, and i don't like pasting very much Actually, last Silvester I made 10 55mm hemes and 5 65mm hemes by hand. This costs a bit of time A picture of them:Click I took a plastic shell, as I use them also as hemes, and then I smear it with moisturizer. But take enough!Then you paste the smeared plastic shell until the paper layer has a thickness of about 2-3mm. After this take a scalpel (or just a very sharp knife) to cut the paper, just once around, like an equator. Becaus of the moisturizer you used before you can take of the hemis (normally) quite easily. Dry them and your hemes are ready to use.But I think this technique works just up to 3". greets
Mumbles Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 I know people who have made up to 36" shell hemis. If you go to the PGI this year, there is a presentation on making 36" shells. He literally used a beach ball or one of those big workout type of balls. There are a few ways to make hemis./ PAssfire has a really interesting one where you suck a paper mulch up into a former. Alternatively you can paste paper over plastic hemis. They're pretty cheap if you pick them up from cannonfuse or something. I personally find for myself that plastic shells need a good flash break to be decent, but I've seen many examples here that go against that. I think taping with fiber tape is also key. When taping or pasting over plastic shells, instead of a moisturizer or lubricant that could stick on the paper, I use a plastic grocery bag or saran wrap. Tape over both hemis separately, and tie them off in the center of the shell. Put them together and paste away. 3-4 layers of good paper with wood glue does the trick usually. You may also want to file off any nipples or nubs on the plastic shells.
gods knight Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Oh so thats how, thanks, Ive herd of pass fire and got a free account for three days and I am becoming attached to it, i think ill get the membership, they have an amazing amount of compositions on every type of star, and even a tutorial on how to make shells out of easter eggs!. By the way I made a charcoal willow comp, but I cant seem to find a good binder, can I use flour as a binder? Ive used it before and it made good stars but it didn't have a consistent burn rate maybe I didn't use it in right amounts? I used it in a 1/3 ratio
pudidotdk Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 You wont get good result with just flour. Some people use wheat paste, which I am making a tutorial for (passfire has a tutorial too). It's basicly just flour and water, however it's boiled to release the gluten. I used wheat paste for pasting my 3".
TheSidewinder Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Plain flour won't work for binding stars. Wheat paste is used for pasting-in of shells. For stars, use Dextrin, CMC, Gum Arabic, or perhaps Cellulose Acetate. And the amount of binder, whatever type you use, is between 2 and 5 percent. Dextrin is typically 5%, CMC or Gum Arabic is typically 2-3%. If by "1/3" you mean 33.3 percent, then you are using WAAAAY too much binder! M
pudidotdk Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 There is a topic on rec.pyro about using wheat paste for stars:http://tinyurl.com/25aohx
gods knight Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Oh so thats why it did not work, any way I got a1lb of corn starch and im going to turn it into dextrin , in the mean time I tested my willow powder and it burned extremely fast and left molten kno3 behind, I didn't use any sulfur just kno3 and 100% natural charcoal(with dextrin) I wonder what i did wrong ? I used the wet method and blended it and when I made it into a star and used my star gun and guess what? no tail. what it did was create a sort of golden star effect, it looks really good but I need it to have a long streaming tail otherwise it wouldn't be called" willow"
Mumbles Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 First of all let me get th is straight. You think by using using willow charcoal you'll get a willow effect? I sure hope this is not the case. Anyway, if this is not the case, if you could give us the formula you used we could maybe help. I bet you have WAYYYYYY too much KNO3. A good willow will have less than 50%. Sulfur also adds to the effect, I suggest you use some. Also, what is "the wet method" You really have to specify.
gods knight Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 http://www.vk2zay.net/composition.php?id=58Thats where I got it from, and no I didn't use willow charcoal, I used 100% natural charcoal, thats what the package says.Instead of SGRS(rice starch) I used dextrin. Less that fifty? oh ok ill try it again and see how it works out. on that site (not the same page) he said pretty much any type of charcoal would do.
psyco_1322 Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 So those big ugles on the sides of your shells are rising effects right? Why not just put them on the bottom beside the fuse to insure they get lit. Gasses around the shell seems to be unrealiable in my mind but there is a lot of fire coming ing out of those mortars so maybe it is ok. If I get the video uploaded, i have one of a 13/4 shell that was plastic hemis with C-8 to red stars that made a beutiful semetrical break. Dang all these shell pics makes me wanna go make some nice looking shells. It took me awail to get to 3" shelss and I still havent done many. But Im gonna be jumping up sizes quick from the feels of it. Might sell some to relatives. They bought some commercial 3, 4, 6s on the fourth jfrom a friend of theres and paid about 40-60 dollars a piece. Im gonna get in on this money making deal and make em a deal. Not sure how they did it but said he had to sell so many to keep his liecense or pay for it or something coonfusing. They didnt really even know. And whats up with commercial fireworks have 3" shells now? Isnt that illegal? I took a single shote apart to see what it was and it was a 2.25" shell in 3" hemis. Just had 5/16" pumped stars and rice hulls no break powder at all. The fuse was some weird stuff made from several strands of paper fuse wrapped up in a visco manner. I thought it was just uncoated visco but then took a closer look.
pudidotdk Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 If you do, there's a chance of the comet to either fall off or shatter.You only want ignition, nothing more.
psyco_1322 Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Oh I see. Ive done it with smaller shels but I forget that bigger shells have harder shoots.
aquaman Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 http://www.vk2zay.net/composition.php?id=58Thats where I got it from, and no I didn't use willow charcoal, I used 100% natural charcoal, thats what the package says.The Willow formula I have in my notes is: KNO3-------------35Sulfur-----------------12Charcoal---------45Dextrin----------------8Bind with alcohol 25% and water 75%.
Mumbles Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 Selling fireworks is very illegal for you. If you get caught you will go to jail for a felony, even if it is to relatives. The friend of the family is in the same situation, it's very illegal to do. The paying off the licence is bullshit, they're $300 for 3 years, and even cheaper for renewal. Also, the fireworks you make will be of lower quality than those available commercially. I doubt you could fetch those kind of prices. Normally the shells your family supposedly purchased will run less than $10 a piece. The willow thing. Did you replace the sulfur with charcoal, or did you just omit it and leave it completely out without replacing it? Chances are the sulfur is rather vital to the effect, so I would suggest using some.
Frozentech Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 So those big ugles on the sides of your shells are rising effects right? Why not just put them on the bottom beside the fuse to insure they get lit. Gasses around the shell seems to be unrealiable in my mind but there is a lot of fire coming ing out of those mortars so maybe it is ok. If I get the video uploaded, i have one of a 13/4 shell that was plastic hemis with C-8 to red stars that made a beutiful semetrical break. Dang all these shell pics makes me wanna go make some nice looking shells. It took me awail to get to 3" shelss and I still havent done many. But Im gonna be jumping up sizes quick from the feels of it. Might sell some to relatives. They bought some commercial 3, 4, 6s on the fourth jfrom a friend of theres and paid about 40-60 dollars a piece. Im gonna get in on this money making deal and make em a deal. Not sure how they did it but said he had to sell so many to keep his liecense or pay for it or something coonfusing. They didnt really even know. And whats up with commercial fireworks have 3" shells now? Isnt that illegal? I took a single shote apart to see what it was and it was a 2.25" shell in 3" hemis. Just had 5/16" pumped stars and rice hulls no break powder at all. The fuse was some weird stuff made from several strands of paper fuse wrapped up in a visco manner. I thought it was just uncoated visco but then took a closer look. Yes, those are rising effect comets on his shells. They are almost always placed on the top, ( I have tried numerous times to add them on the bottom, the effect isn't any better, and they often shatter or fly off on their own). They light quite well from the intense blow-torch effect of the lift flame ( look closely and you'll notice even a 3" mortar has a 4 or 5 foot flame for an instant ). Materials cost jump up fast as shell size increases. I was just reading a post on the PGI list, guy was complaining that to make 2 6" and 2 7" cylinder shells took him 8 lb of KNO3 just for lift, break, and pulverone filler, and about 20 lb of KClO4 for bottom shots and stars. (his gripe was about Dr. John Conkling and his testimony at the Firefox trial that 'amateurs only need a few lb of oxidisers per year' ) Your relatives are getting rooked while they break the law, I hate to say. you don't say which size shells, or what type, they paid $60 for, but even a domestic US made (=spendy) shell , a 6" Chrysanthemum is $45 tops, a 3" shell runs about 8.50, An imported shell is maybe 1/2 that. Chinese shells are even cheaper, I don't have a price list with me, but in bulk they are a LOT cheaper. (unfortunately, this is what drove most US manufacturers out of business ) Anything you make yourself is automatically 1.3, there is no home-made 1.4. I think in most states, you get about 5 years for selling them without a license ? Be very careful. You can't even transfer them free for someone else to use, legally.
gods knight Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 The willow thing. Did you replace the sulfur with charcoal, or did you just omit it and leave it completely out without replacing it? Chances are the sulfur is rather vital to the effect, so I would suggest using some. lol how did you know? Ok, then ill try it and see how it turns out. As for the buying shells from relatives: one of my uncles friend was a pyro and he lost his pyrotechnic license for selling the dud shells from the display.(They still worked but the fuse wasn't wired properly), and he was taken to the police station and charged with some sort of misdemeanor or something like that, and now he has to file for a license again, if he can.
psyco_1322 Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 I know its illegal as hell. But come on, is anything in this hobby legal without tons of crap to back you up? And for prices, thats why I thought it was crazy, they have the money and dont know any better. But how do people get caught? They stand on street corners or something yelling "illegal fireworks for sell here!"? Or maybe there customers just like to open there mouths to everyone that looks like he might be a cop. Oh and would someone explain to me these bottom shots? What are they?
ULTRABUF Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 I think its like a double break shell, they had a couple on a Nova movie on fireworks. The top shell has like stars and stuff in it, and the second shell is like a large salute that goes off after the intitial burst. Im not sure exactly though, one of the more knowledgable members can probably tell you more.
psyco_1322 Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 Ya cause that sounds like just a double break shell.
FrankRizzo Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 Psyco, People get "caught" when the display fireworks they irresponsibly sell to an unlicensed and/or untrained individual end up killing or seriously injuring the shooter or innocent bystanders. The reason a license is required is to ensure that the person will have undergone some basic training and is aware of the safe operating distance and storage requirements that have been set to make using display fireworks safer. We don't take kindly to assholes that cause problems for the display community and I fully hope that your uncle's friend gets his ass nailed to the fucking wall.
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