Givat Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Look closer on you pipe, they have to write some information about the pipe on the pipe itself.
Kilo_G Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 PVC and ABS (ABS is a grey to black colored pipe) are not suitable for mortars. DON'T USE THEM. When they fracture/explode their shrapnel is small, sharp and obviously dangers. The main problem with PVC/ABS is that if you launch shells in them it can fracture them and you will not be able to see the fracture (it will usually be hairline), when this happens you have no idea, so you go to launch your next shell and kablam you're full of PVC or ABS. Not fun. EDIT: PVC stands for Polyvinyl Chloride, PVC pipe is not pure Polyvinyl Chloride. ABS stands for Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene, I do not know about the purity of Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene pipe but I would also assume it is not pure either.
Mumbles Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Generally pipes are made of one of three things; PVC, ABS, or HDPE. I would only use the HDPE. PVC and ABS are brittle and will shatter. ABS is even weaker than PVC, so I wouldn't use it. Acetone should soften both. HDPE is pretty resistant to everything. What color is the pipe, and are there any markings in them?
Pyrohawk Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 Actually I have apipe that eeds identified as well.... It actually is a mortar from a large consumer set (came with a lot of shells) so I would hope that it would be HDPE.... I'd like to think that a consumer company wuldn't sell anything but HDPE to its consumers.... Its a large and very thick black pipe. But has no markings.
Kilo_G Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I'm sure it's HDPE. A lot of 1.4g reloadables are being sold with HDPE mortars now. The CPSC is trying to ban the sale of reloadables that don't have an HDPE/fiberglass mortar (i.e. not allowing reloadable kits to have a paper mortar in their packaging). Usually the more expensive/impressive reloadable kits have HDPE mortars in them, like some Black Cat kits, Zenith Excalibur kits and I think but am not sure that the Phantom Grucci kits have HDPE mortars. EDIT: Obviously the downside of all kits having HDPE mortars in them is thatit will raise the price of kits.
Frozentech Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I'm sure it's HDPE. A lot of 1.4g reloadables are being sold with HDPE mortars now. The CPSC is trying to ban the sale of reloadables that don't have an HDPE/fiberglass mortar (i.e. not allowing reloadable kits to have a paper mortar in their packaging). Usually the more expensive/impressive reloadable kits have HDPE mortars in them, like some Black Cat kits, Zenith Excalibur kits and I think but am not sure that the Phantom Grucci kits have HDPE mortars. EDIT: Obviously the downside of all kits having HDPE mortars in them is thatit will raise the price of kits. The upside for me, is that I have a deal with a local fireworks seller who does Class C shows, to pick up the extra mortars he tosses out after emptying out 'off the shelf' festival ball assortments for his shows
bubbelpower Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I can find no markings, they are cut from longer pipes. They are light grey.
Mumbles Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 Chances are it is conduit PVC if it's grey. Put some more acetone on it and smear down with your finger. Acetone isn't the best solvent for PVC. If you really wanted to test it, add THF, but that is rather exotic stuff.
bubbelpower Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I've put a piece of it in a can with acetone, and it won't soften at all.
Kilo_G Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 I'd almost guarantee it's electrical PVC. Why keep guessing, if you know you don't know what it is, why screw with it?
BigBang Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 There has been much talk about HDPE but just a quick mention of fiberglass. Fiberglass is quite strong and will last just as long as HDPE. Unforetuanately, the only source I've found is EXTREMELY expensive. I have however heard of a source in asia sell very high quality tubes for about 3 buck per ten feet. Now the problem becomes, how do we get it out? Any ideas? Also, does anyone here know of an affordable source of fiberglass tubes suitable for morters?
Chris Posted February 14, 2006 Author Posted February 14, 2006 There has been much talk about HDPE but just a quick mention of fiberglass. Fiberglass is quite strong and will last just as long as HDPE. Unforetuanately, the only source I've found is EXTREMELY expensive. I have however heard of a source in asia sell very high quality tubes for about 3 buck per ten feet. Now the problem becomes, how do we get it out? Any ideas? Also, does anyone here know of an affordable source of fiberglass tubes suitable for morters?Most likely every fireworks factory in China can supply fiberglass mortars. However, the required minimum order is usually very large for these companies. I have been in contact with some china based manufacturers but the minimum order has always been an issue. I get my GF tubes from my display company.
delta_echo Posted February 14, 2006 Posted February 14, 2006 There has been much talk about HDPE but just a quick mention of fiberglass. Fiberglass is quite strong and will last just as long as HDPE. Unforetuanately, the only source I've found is EXTREMELY expensive. I have however heard of a source in asia sell very high quality tubes for about 3 buck per ten feet. Now the problem becomes, how do we get it out? Any ideas? Also, does anyone here know of an affordable source of fiberglass tubes suitable for morters?Most likely every fireworks factory in China can supply fiberglass mortars. However, the required minimum order is usually very large for these companies. I have been in contact with some china based manufacturers but the minimum order has always been an issue. I get my GF tubes from my display company. Hopefully this'll help you out. http://www.pyrouniverse.com/store/fiberglass.htm
Kilo_G Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 I like the idea of fiberglass mortars. The only thing that concerns me about them is I havn't seen one that has been intentionally destroyed i.e. a 3" shell upside down, a 3" titanium flash salute upside down, a 4" upside down, a 4" flash salute upside down and so on. I'd like to see what the shrapnel/mortar looks like and the area/distance that it threw the shrapnel and compair it with HDPE. I am aware that the fiberglass mortars meet NFPA requirements, but I'd still like to see with my own eyes.
BigBang Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Not sure about how it would break from an explosion. I use it in some high preformance rockets and it hasn't failed. I have seen some hard crashes( at mach+ speeds) and it rips, like cloth. This is for filiment wound tubing, although I would suspect it to be the same in other weaves. Either way, you deserve something if you are going to stand close enough to a mortar going off. I could see if it was an accident but other then that, there is no excuse to stand near one.
Kilo_G Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Actually there is a lot of excuses to stand next to one, mainly hand firing a show. EDIT: That also depends on what you consider standing next to one. Is standing next to one being in the vacinity of where shrapnel can go? Is standing next to one being in the same radius on the ground as the spread of a shell, the mortar being your center? Next to is dependent on what you feel is "next to" the mortar. I've stood 3' from 3" mortars. Sometimes, especially if you're shooting a show on a barge by hand you could be 1' or less away.
BigBang Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Damn that's close! I just don't like to take the risk I spose, don't want to take the chance. I like to be a good 20' back so as not to die so fast If I was to be close to one of those buggers, I might burry it, just to be safe.
Kilo_G Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 That'd be an awefully long, tiresome and possibly boring show to have to keep running 20' away and 20' back. 3" mortars usually arn't burried sometimes neither are the 4". when you're shooting a show at the very least you should have eye protection. A lot of guys wear those loggers head gear things. It's a face shield, hard hat and ear protection all in one (they also wear glasses/safety glasses under the face sheild). Another common article to be worn is a full Carhart insulated jumpsuit. I believe in Japan and hot climates they wear fire retardant suits a lot.
Frozentech Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Damn that's close! I just don't like to take the risk I spose, don't want to take the chance. I like to be a good 20' back so as not to die so fast If I was to be close to one of those buggers, I might burry it, just to be safe.How do you expect to hand-fire a show ? Not all are electric, even these days. In Alaska, where I live, electrical firing is the exception, due to the effect of the cold on computers and batteries. Here's a link to a clip of video of how far away a professional is from the tubes when handfiring a show. I'm stoked because next month I get to help shoot shows All are going to be hand-fired. hand-firing a fireworks show
al93535 Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Construction pics of my 6" double petal shell: Here are the hemi'shttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/al93535/6hemi.jpg Filled with stars:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/al93535/6filled.jpg Burst:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/al93535/6burst.jpg Inner petal:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/al9...6innerpetal.jpg Inner burst:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/al9...6innerburst.jpg 40mm Rising shells:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/al93535/40mm.jpg The outter petal is green to red to dragons eggs, and the inner petal is winokur39 glitter. The outter petal should burn for 4 seconds, and the inner for 1.5. The rising shells will burst at 1.7 seconds, then every 1.4 seconds later. The main shell should ignite at 5.5 seconds. I will post pics of the completed shell with small flowers as soon as its done.
Pretty green flame Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Superb looking shell Al, but could you explain a bit on the rising shells. Do you put these right in the lift charge with your 6 incher and they burst every now on the 6" shells path.
al93535 Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 The rising shells get attached to the main shells hanger rope. I pass the main hanger through the hangers on the rising shells. So they will be ontop on the shell in the mortar, just like a rising tail comet. The rising shells explode every 1.4 seconds. The burst is BP meal on rise crispies 4:1. The shell weighs in at 1318 grams, and still needs 6 more layers of pasting. Each of the rising shells weighs about 45 grams. The first rising shell to light will be blue stars, the second green and charcoal streamers, and the third contains steel stars. I will use 1/15th the weight of the shell as lift, and yes I made the lift myself. I added one gram of flash as a booster, and I am pasting on 8 layers of 70lb recycled kraft which overlaps 1/2, so really it will be like 16 layers. The rising shells are using amercian visco as timefuse, and the main shell japanese 1/4" timefuse.
Mephistos Minion Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Very nice al. I am awaiting a shipping quote for 80 of those fiberglass mortars to Australia, it seems the only economical solution for large ammounts of mortars. I am planning to (depends on homework load) construct some small canister shells for testing of fusing and lift this weekend, Components made this weekend, dried by next and fired the one after. Hopefully my lift will be good enough to launch them a good height over the grass and grape vines EDIT: That handfiring vid was fucking insane, I would love to do that .
teknix Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Ok I have a quuestion... Has anyone ever used just pure homemade nitrocellulose as lift for aerial shells? I was thinking about this and wandered if it would work well. I'm probably guessing it wouldn't take much NC to make the sucker fly. Would the NC be sufficently hot enough to ignite the shells fuze? What do you guys think? Worth a try? Because to me NC is a less of a pain in the ass to make than BP is and maybe it'll take less and be cheaper.
Pyrohawk Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 It would make a superb lift but..... since it fires so hard there is the possibility it might crush in the shell and cause a flowerpot or something. The main problem with using pure NC I would think would be it burns so fast it probably wouldn't ignite the fuse. Good NC burns so fast you ould (theoretically) hold it in your hand and burn it without it harming you and NC is used in things when you want the projectile to be unburnt. So I doubt the fuse would get lit.....
Recommended Posts