Aerial Shells

[TheSidewinder]

Your 3rd ever, eh? Very nice!

 

And that break looked pretty good actually.

[Ventsi]

Here's a tutorial, I was going to post it here but it'd probably get lost, so here:

 

http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4661

[Ventsi]

Ahh here we are!

 

 

I still have my finale , 3 Multi breaks and two rockets to shoo.

[longwaytofall]

Let me know when you are going out again, I'll throw together something. Hopefully 3lb BP rocket tooling will get done sometime in the near future....

[Ventsi]

I was thinking in a few weeks we could stop by San Gregorio. Looks like good place.

 

 

Perhaps we should take this to the chat room, I'll be back there...

[TheEskimo]

Hello boys and gels.......I just built 8 3inchers as a late bday present for myself. Well, built as in snapped together with some masking tape to hold them closed...Lots of pasting tomorrow

Anyways, I know it's rather late to ask this, but I just want to confirm the correct way to make ring shells. All I did was take the stars, 3/8in pumped, and hotglued them along the rim of the shell with a small dab of hotglue. This seemed to me to be the logical way to do it. So, is this the correct way, or is there an easier/faster/more proper way to make a ring in ball shells?

Ventsi, Scarbelly, Longwaytofall, nice vid. Looked like fun. I'm all alone out here in the wilds of PA; wish I had a posse like you guys

[50AE]

TheEskimo, I think you don't have to hot glue the stars to the hemi. Just fill your hemi with slightly less burst charge where the ring will be, then position your stars around and fill the rest of the hemi with burst charge, so the stars will be stable.

 

Yesterday was a "pasting day". I successfuly pasted all my 6 3" ball shells and my first 4" cylindrical shell

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/uploads/1250150951/gallery_3895_38_560780.jpg

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/uploads/1250150951/gallery_3895_38_105176.jpg

Edited March 10, 2010 by 50AE

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

You'd better paste the fibers of the kraftpaper vertically.

[50AE]

I think this can be debating.

 

1. Pasting with the grains vertically means harder pasting, because the strips will bend harder this way.

2. When the shell breaks, forces come from all directions at 360 degrees. The shell must be strong equally from everywhere. So grain direction's not an issue, it is disperced in 3 poles.

3. It is not the case where cylindrical shells are made and the grains must run vertically to assure the best casing strength.

4. My paper has very little difference between the grain short and the grain long force resistance.

[pudidotdk]

Eugene Yurek from Passfire had an argument about the drying of the paper.

When pasted horizontally, the strips will shrink as they dry, thus tightening everything up.

[Mumbles]

All the relevant ball shell texts recommend grain short. Canisters use grain short paper, but since the longest strip is going horizontal, the fibers run vertically on the shells.

 

Now that being said, all the gummed tape that is sold is grain long, and works just fine for me. There is something to be said for it, but I've never tried for traditional pasting. I've heard the same shrinking arguements for grain short. If you vary the poles, any weak directions will be pretty much averaged out anyway.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Well, I can only paste soaked paper with the grains vertically, otherwise I pull the strips apart. The chinese and the Japanese do it this way.

[Mumbles]

It sounds like you may not be using virgin kraft paper. It's easier to tear, but I was able to paste in many ball shells without much of an issue with virgin material. I see no problem with using paper grain long vs. grain short, but much of the literature (shimizu, hardt, etc) recommends grain short strips. With recycled paper, the grain is less defined anyway, so it makes sense to use it in the most easily handled orientation. Most chinese shells, as far as I've experienced, have completely switched to gummed tape. I must admit, I am not as familar with current Japanese technique. Much of my information comes from Shimizu, and second hand accounts of people who have been there over the last 10 or 20 years. The last I've heard is they use more layers, but thinner paper, but nothing about specific orientation.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

How do you know the chinese use gummed tape?

[Mumbles]

The videos, the products I've seen, personal accounts, and the fact that Jim Widmann has been sending quite a few of his WASPs over to various big factories in china. The easiest way to pick it out is because of the continuous strip of paper on some shells. I'm not saying all shells are made with gummed tape, but it can increase productivity. I may be wrong too, and just misinterpreting the products, and some of the videos for being a majority.

[Bonny]

I've found for pasting, cutting strips the with the grain long, they (strips) don't "roll up", making them easier to handle. Also, if someone is "breaking the grain" in the paper (by crumpling/folding etc...) as well as alternating the axis I don't think there would be a huge difference in the end result. Just my opinion anyway, but do what is easiest and works for you.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

I never have seen walnut look-a-like chinese shells (like wasp shells look like), but that doesn't say none chinese factory is using a wasp of course. But I know some people who's working in chinese factories and they always paste with "Liuyang" paper (80 grams kraftpaper). These are 109 x 77 cm, the strips were the chinese paste with are 109cm long, when they are folded open one side is sticky because it is smeared (and soaked) in with wheat paste (before it's been cut into strips). I know some movies on youtube where it looks like they are using gummed tape, but it ain't.

I don't see the advantage of using a wasp because the chinese don't really add much layers on their shells, they compensate it with the burst. The last layer they paste is for sight. It also would be a hell of a job to put 2 timefuses in, in a fast way. (for the american industry I can imagine they use a machine for pasting their shells of course, too much labour)

 

There is even a faster way to paste two layers in one time, but that's pretty hard to describe, and only usefull for shells that require more than 16 layers or so. And there for you need sheets (and not kraftpaper rolls) and a cutting table.

Edited March 10, 2010 by FREAKYDUTCHMEN

[Mumbles]

I've seen the folded paper, but I realized later that it is wet pasted. Anyone who has ever folded gummed tape together will soon find out it doesn't come apart that easily. What I have seen however is people taking seemingly dry strips, maybe a meter or so long, and wiping it down with a sponge or cloth, and using it much in the same way that the folded "Liuyang" paper is used, and much in the same way that I use gummed tape. It could be they are smearing an adhesive solution on it, but it would seem you'd have to let that paper rest for at least a few minutes. I'll see if I can find them. It seems to me they were somewhere else besides youtube.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Ok i'm curious...

[50AE]

I didn't tell you that I'm using virgin kraft. The tensile strength difference is very small between grain short and grain long.

So it doesn't matter for me what is the grain directions. When my shells are pasted and dried, they are very hard and dense.

[50AE]

I fired this night:

-A 3" starmine

-A 3" ball shell with crap stars, but the shell was good.

-My first salute shell - a 3" with 40g 7:3 and the rest was BP on hulls. Very bright and loud.

-My first 4" cylindrical shell with glitter stars and BP on hulls as burst. It was very beautiful, but I still can't figure how, the mortar was shredded to pieces, a 10mm thick cardboard tube. I'm posting a video and pics Sunday.

 

With the exception of the confetti mortar, everything else was perfect.

[TheSidewinder]

I didn't tell you that I'm using virgin kraft. The tensile strength difference is very small between grain short and grain long.

So it doesn't matter for me what is the grain directions. When my shells are pasted and dried, they are very hard and dense.

 

I can't tell from your syntax in the message above this quoted one, if you ARE or are NOT using virgin Kraft.

 

But if you are, there's something odd with it, if there isn't a VERY NOTICEABLE difference in tensile strength, between grain short and grain long.

 

But...... I see you live half a world away, and they might make it a different way there?

 

Here in the US, at least, Virgin Kraft has quite a difference between grain long and short.

[50AE]

Sorry, I ment I am using virgin kraft.

I bought it from France and I brought it here.

[TheSidewinder]

Hmm....

 

Well, Virgin Kraft should have a *noticeable* difference in tensile strength between grain short and grain long.

 

Some manufacturers have sold Recycled Kraft paper that was labeled as Virgin Kraft. Whether that was deliberate or out of ignorance, I don't know.

 

I have 3 rolls of paper; 70# virgin, 35# virgin, and 35# recycled.

 

When I take a square of each 35# type and wet each of them with paste, I can pull pretty hard in the grain long direction with the virgin and it doesn't come apart. Pull on the grain short side and it immediately tears.

 

With the recycled, you can pull ANY direction and it immediately tears.

 

All I use the recycled for is the final wrap after the fusing and lift has been added, so it's not a problem.

[Bonny]

Hmm....

Some manufacturers have sold Recycled Kraft paper that was labeled as Virgin Kraft. Whether that was deliberate or out of ignorance, I don't know.

 

 

Most likely deliberate...higher selling price, lower cost.