Aerial Shells

[Mumbles]

I think I know what you're talking about. I do it, but never thought anything of it, though I like your theory. After the vertical spiking you spiral the string down to the bottom. I will then do a few wraps at the bottom over this. I always figured it locked the spiral into place and kept it from sliding back up and loosening the horizontals. I do the same thing at the top before I tie it off. Again, I feel like it kind of "locks" the string off. Before I started doing it, my strings would loosen a bit if I wasn't careful.

 

I don't have quite evenly spaced horizontal spiking, a little more rectangular actually.

[Ventsi]

I use 2 turns of manilla folder, and 2 turns of 70lb kraft. The manilla is solely for the body. The overhanging kraft is what gets folded down.

 

 

Does this scale up? I mean if I have 12" shell[theoretically] do I put 12 turns of manila and 12 of kraft? I'm making a few more 3" multi breaks and just wanted to be sure.

 

Also, the former for a 3" can shell should be 2.5" correct?

 

Edit; Also can someone sort of "teach" me how to do off center spiking? I've tried it many times and I just screw it up. I saw the thread about the templates but that was of little help.

 

Thanks.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Ventsi

[psyco_1322]

Off center spiking is quite easy, especially with the templates. You start like normal, loop with a slipknot of some kind around the shell. Start up to one line, and identify the line directly across from it, now move one line to the right and cross your spiking there. When you get to the opposite end, you identify the line directly across and move over again, to the left this time, and spike over the end disk. You would then repeat until you run out of lines. Your last spike should land right on top of your first, then you would cross the disc again, spiral down to the end of the shell and start your horizontal spiking as usual. You never make a straight, across the disk spike, they are all offset, hence the name. This will give a nice looking spike job with no build up around the fuse/spolette.

 

Should come out looking like these:

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyc...nt=S4024988.jpg

[Mumbles]

In theory it does scale up, at least the kraft paper. A 12" shell will indeed normally have 12 turns of paper. The liner isn't as critical, nor is it even used traditionally. I like it because it gives me a guideline of how high to fill the shell, and I think it adds that little something extra to make my shells preform better. I guess I normally use about half the number of turns of liner (manilla folder, poster board, chip board, etc) as I do kraft paper, but with a minimum of two. So 2 turns up through 4", then 3 turns for 5 and 6" shells, and I don't really make any larger.

 

I've been recently exploring the maltese can method where only 2 turns of liner, and 2 turns of kraft are used for any size of shell. My shell malfunctioned, but I don't think it was the technique. Well of the canister itself at least. My salute technique may need some refinement.

 

Psyco and I might be explaining the same method, but I can't quite visualize what he is describing. I'll give it a go with what I do.

 

Mark off however many verticals you want, 12 on a 3" shell for instance. 12 spikings makes for a useful clock description too. It always goes up by a factor of 4, so I generally divide into 4 parts and mark from there to try to keep them even. I really should just make a template on a computer some day. Start the string however you normally do. I like to tie a clove hitch around the body of the shell personally. Some like to tie it off to the spolette or timefuse. Go over the first mark (6 o'clock), and lay the string over the mark one to the right of the mark directly across from it, so 1 o'clock. On the bottom I identify the next spot on the top and I bring the string across the bottom to this mark. Except for the initial one, you will then go every other mark. In this case I would bring it up and around at the 8 o'clock position. Keep going. The total pattern should be as follows:

 

6 o'clock

1

8

3

10

5

12

7

2

9

4

11

6

 

After typing that out, I think psyco and I are describing the same thing. I got a little confused with the one spot to the right and one spot to the left thing, but it makes more sense now.

[Ventsi]

This is why I love this place, again thank you guys very much, both of you've been incredibly helpful.

[psyco_1322]

Now if you ask me, I would tell you that Mumbles description confused the hell out of me. I know its the same thing though. The Passfire article on off center says about the same thing I did in the second to last paragraph. Thanks to that article, I learned to off center spike.

[scarbelly]

I'm just starting to use time fuse, and I was a little curious about how to go about the timing. Obviously if I want a 3 second delay and my time fuse were rated at 3 seconds per inch, I would need 1 inch of time fuse. What I'm confused about is where to measure.

 

I would guess that I would measure from crossmatch to crossmatch, rather than end to end. Is that correct? So 1 inch between the cross match? Also, how much extra space on the ends do I want? Something like 1/4"?

 

I would probably prime the ends with NC and BP, but I don't happen to have any nitrocellulose and I'm more experienced with black match, so cross-matching seems to be the way to go for the moment.

[dagabu]

I'm just starting to use time fuse, and I was a little curious about how to go about the timing. Obviously if I want a 3 second delay and my time fuse were rated at 3 seconds per inch, I would need 1 inch of time fuse. What I'm confused about is where to measure.

 

I would guess that I would measure from crossmatch to crossmatch, rather than end to end. Is that correct? So 1 inch between the cross match? Also, how much extra space on the ends do I want? Something like 1/4"?

 

I would probably prime the ends with NC and BP, but I don't happen to have any nitrocellulose and I'm more experienced with black match, so cross-matching seems to be the way to go for the moment.

 

I think you answered most of your own questions here. Measure from cross match to cross match and priming should be reserved for blind installments where you cant cross match. The set back is 1 diameter, or 1/4".

 

You knew it all along!

[scarbelly]

Awesome, thanks very much! Sounds simple enough. And what do you reccommend, slicing and tying the end or punching a hole and feeding in the crossmatch?

[Xtreme Pyro]

Awesome, thanks very much! Sounds simple enough. And what do you reccommend, slicing and tying the end or punching a hole and feeding in the crossmatch?

 

Not sure if this is the answer that your looking for but I asked that same exact question, and found out that most people split the time fuse and tie it at the end with a piece of dental floss. Also, I usually cut a 1.5" piece of time fuse, and split it down to the 1" giving me a three second delay mark leaving a half inch of the fuse split, probably overkill but oh well it seems to work .

Edited February 4, 2010 by Xtreme Pyro

[Ventsi]

Also guys, don't forget to time your time fuse. I have bought some before that was labeled at 3sec/in but actually burned at 2.1 sec/in.

 

P.S. The offset spiking tips were great and worked wonderfully, I'll post some pictures when I'm done with all the shells.

[scarbelly]

Not sure if this is the answer that your looking for but I asked that same exact question, and found out that most people split the time fuse and tie it at the end with a piece of dental floss. Also, I usually cut a 1.5" piece of time fuse, and split it down to the 1" giving me a three second delay mark leaving a half inch of the fuse split, probably overkill but oh well it seems to work .

 

That was pretty much my question. Tying it off with dental floss sounds downright painful though :/ I guess I'll give each method a try. And I have to cross match both ends right? The take-fire and pass-fire?

 

Ventsi: As you know, I did test the fuse and it came out to exactly where it was rated - 3.3 seconds per inch.

[jukka]

Well I have been wondering, how do you exactly measure the timing with Visco.

Lets say u have Visco, 3s/1".

Do you need to cover inside shell that 1" to get 3s delay or should the Visco be from end to end 1" long?

So same in a nutshell, does the lift charge burn all the Visco from the outside of the shell or just lights the primed part and counting starts?

[scarbelly]

The lift will just light the end of the visco, and it will light more reliably if primed of course. On the inside of the shell, as soon as the visco becomes visible (no longer wrapped in tape or Al foil or whatever), that is where it first begins to pass fire. So essentially, you'd measure from the outer end to the end of the wrapping within the shell.

 

I hope that made sense... it kinda sounds like it didn't...

 

And thanks for the help everyone!

[dagabu]

Not sure if this is the answer that your looking for but I asked that same exact question, and found out that most people split the time fuse and tie it at the end with a piece of dental floss. Also, I usually cut a 1.5" piece of time fuse, and split it down to the 1" giving me a three second delay mark leaving a half inch of the fuse split, probably overkill but oh well it seems to work .

 

Hobbyists do split and tie, that is true but inspections of commercial shells show that punched time fuse is almost 100% of all ball shells.

 

I caution anyone that wants to split and tie that even though it looks very easy to do, there a lot of things that can go wrong and for those of us that want to limit problems, punching is a much better option. Punching is not better, just different.

 

What could go wrong?

-The fuse is split to far

-The split is not centered and the BM doesn't pass fire

-Stitches from the razor blade

-Cutting the TF while laying it flat makes the powder crumble

-Knots

-The wrong string

-Failure to dab a spot of glue on the knot

-Knots

 

D

[dagabu]

Well I have been wondering, how do you exactly measure the timing with Visco.

Lets say u have Visco, 3s/1".

Do you need to cover inside shell that 1" to get 3s delay or should the Visco be from end to end 1" long?

So same in a nutshell, does the lift charge burn all the Visco from the outside of the shell or just lights the primed part and counting starts?

 

There is much discussion about timing but the most reliable way I have found is to lay a 1' length of foil tape face up and place a 1' piece of visco on it (it will stick to it), fold some of the side under to stick the tape to the concrete, a board etc.

 

Turn your video camera on but remember to turn the counter on too, light and watch the video. The timer should give you 1-1/10 of a second accuracy.

 

Time fuse should be measured the same way, just remember to divide by 12 and write that seconds per inch somewhere on the container.

 

D

 

PS, foil wrap a 1' piece of visco for use as a time fuse, the timing will be slightly different depending on the fuse core.

Edited February 4, 2010 by dagabu

[jukka]

There is much discussion about timing but the most reliable way I have found is to lay a 1' length of foil tape face up and place a 1' piece of visco on it (it will stick to it), fold some of the side under to stick the tape to the concrete, a board etc.

 

Thank You!

Thats pretty much what I have done for calculating the duration but still I have hard time to understand, will those hot gases from lift burn x part of the Visco immediately on lift or just lights the very end of it.

[dagabu]

Thank You!

Thats pretty much what I have done for calculating the duration but still I have hard time to understand, will those hot gases from lift burn x part of the Visco immediately on lift or just lights the very end of it.

 

Great question!

 

When I use visco for time fuse, I cut it at a 45° angle one diameter from the end of the foil tape. I then dip the end into NC lacquer and dip it into 7FA. This way, the black powder immediately ignites the time fuse (visco) so no delay occurs.

 

D

[Ventsi]

When I cross match, I split the fuse 3/8 down using a pair of Anvil Cutters, perfect cut every time, nice and clean. The I take two thin pieces of BM, dip them in some thin BP slurry, put them in the split and then tie off a hitch-clove using 20lb Hemp twine.Works every time.

[Mumbles]

Hemp sounds too thick. I have used dental floss, but I use one or two plies from cotton string currently. Dental floss is easier actually, but I have more string than I know what to do with. It really is pretty quick once you get the hang of it. 2 turns and you tie it off. One turn under the crossmatch, cross over and one turn over the split above the crossmatch, cross back over and tie it off. I press the split tight together and tie it off nice and snug.

[Zmuro]

6 o'clock

1

8

3

10

5

12

7

2

9

4

11

6

 

After typing that out, I think psyco and I are describing the same thing. I got a little confused with the one spot to the right and one spot to the left thing, but it makes more sense now.

 

You can help yourself with this file: Can Shell Spiking

Edited February 5, 2010 by Zmuro

[qwezxc12]

You can help yourself with this file: Can Shell Spiking

Hey mate... it would be nice of you to give credit where it's due... Offset spiking tutorial thread

 

 

When I cross match, I split the fuse 3/8 down using a pair of Anvil Cutters, perfect cut every time, nice and clean. The I take two thin pieces of BM, dip them in some thin BP slurry, put them in the split and then tie off a hitch-clove using 20lb Hemp twine.Works every time.

In a pinch, and if you cut cleanly enough, you can secure the cross-match in the cut fuse with a small strip of high-tack tape. I'd only recommend this if you are immediately fitting the shell onto the lift charge. Additional handling may loosen the tape and it is not as secure as tying:

 

http://www.apcforum.net/files/IMG_0947.jpg

[Zmuro]

Hey mate... it would be nice of you to give credit where it's due... Offset spiking tutorial thread

 

 

I didn't say that this is my file, I just posted it, because I couldn't remember where I got it.

[Twotails]

I just made a nice can shell, blue, white, glitter, and strobe, offset spiked with cotton string soaked in Redgum/Acetone/alcohol. I hope this one works well. Im also working on makeing a massive salute, not realy that big exactly, but you'll see when i finish it.

[frosty90]

Hi Guys and Gals,

 

Here is my first 3" (and my 3rd ever shell) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl8NL4yT-mc

 

I think the break was a bit weak, Ive just finished 3 more of these (2 tiger tail, and one glitter with 'blue pistil'), I added some flash powder booster to these and pasted them a bit better. I'll take some photos shortly. I'll probably fire them in a couple of days.

 

Cheers,

Jesse