Richtee Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 I want to build a couple flying fish shells, and I have some 3" salute cans I want to use.. "upside down" I figger... fusing the bottom and making a cardboard "lid" that's easily popped off, ejecting the primed, lit FF fuse. And BTW..I want this puppy the right way up when she pops. Can I use a couple lengths of cotton wound 5 strand string pasted onto the base? I'd not think it would burn up... or will it? What is normally used? What a great idea to orient the shell!
Bonny Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 And BTW..I want this puppy the right way up when she pops. Can I use a couple lengths of cotton wound 5 strand string pasted onto the base? I'd not think it would burn up... or will it? What is normally used? What a great idea to orient the shell! I wouldn't be too concerned with the shell orientation for a FF shell. Once the shell pops, the fish will become a cloud before swimming off in random directions anyway.
Bonny Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 I'm going to try and make a 5" double petal shell in the next while. Is KP burst required or will a BP coated carrier and a booster be enough? If so should I use a slow flash for boost or would whistle be sufficient?
Mumbles Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 It's very hard to orient shells as small as 3". There just isn't enough time for any tail/ribbon/etc to fix it's spin. If you still want to break it out only one end, there is a trick with using paper. Fill the bottom half of the shell(the one with the timefuse) with your burst. Then fill the top half with your flying fish, or a flying fish/burst mix. You spike it vertically normal (12 verticals). Then when doing the horizontals, put a dense layer of string over the end with the burst, and only one or two turns over the area with the flying fish. This will cause it to break out one end. I think you'd be fine with either burst bonny. I'd almost lean toward BP with a booster. It seems to give a sharper kick. I'd go with flash personally, but there is no reason whistle wouldn't work either. Good luck on it. Double petal shells and I have not have a pleasant past. I'm about 1 for 7 right now, with my only success happening in an 8" shell.
tentacles Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Bonny: Nice! If you want to paste it in on the WASP just let me know. Is there any chance I could borrow a 5" gun from you for new years?
Bonny Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Bonny: Nice! If you want to paste it in on the WASP just let me know. Is there any chance I could borrow a 5" gun from you for new years? I'll keep that in mind as it is definately fast and easy...how fast were the 3" shells we did...about a minute? The gun will be no problem. I'll TTYL.
aa92td Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Beautiful Yankie I shot a couple myself tonight. One thing i can say about this hobby is that consistency is not only golden, but a challenge as well. I made some new BP from some pine wood I made chrys stars out of. I like the performance of that comp, so I used the pine to make some meal. I messed up and forgot to clean my ball mill and there was some dextrin still in it from the chrys composition. Anyhow, the BP didn't mill correctly and made one huge hard ball of BP in the mill, I just broke it up like corning it, and thought it would perform satisfactory. Not, lol. Videos speak louder than words, ps- listen to my kids at the end, lol- So I figured I'd double the lift amount, and add 2 grams of flash to compensate. That failed too, well, the shell might have looked ok if it went around 300 feet more in the air. Man, the flash made a huge difference in the break size though. This calls for some more experimentation. I'm at 120 feet away from the mortar. You'll see how fast I ran after the break, lol. I learned a good lesson tonight, not to presume all is good because it was the last time, and test the lift well before using it... . Very nice D1 glitter you've got there...what is your aluminum size? and another question in the secound shell wich method of pasting you did there? what kind of paper? and how many layers ofcourse...secound one was great if the life was just a little bit stronger.
swervedriver Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Very nice D1 glitter you've got there...what is your aluminum size? hmmm, that's a good question, I think it's 400 mesh atomized if I remember correctly, 3/8" rolled stars with saturated boric acid 75/25 solvent. and another question in the secound shell wich method of pasting you did there? what kind of paper? and how many layers ofcourse...secound one was great if the life was just a little bit stronger. Thanks friend. no paper pasting at all. Just 3 evenly staggered equatorial wraps of 100 lb test strapping tape, and that's it. Just a few minutes to build and shoot one. I've never pasted a shell before
psyco_1322 Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Next time just tape the whole shell up with the strapping tape, just as if it where paper pasting. You will find much better breaks at the same amount of time you spent taping around the equator.
aa92td Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) Thanks friend. no paper pasting at all. Just 3 evenly staggered equatorial wraps of 100 lb test strapping tape, and that's it. Just a few minutes to build and shoot one. I've never pasted a shell before if that is true you porbably use plastic hemisphere am i right?and actually i preffer to spend some time on pasting with reinforced fiberglass gummed tape then spend a lot of money on test starpping tape (if that is what i'm think it is) in my 3" shells i'm using Bp coated sawdust as burst charge and Ba(NO3)2 + Mg as flash booster 2.5 grams for 3" shell and 5 layers of pasting with white glue and regular A4 papper's. its taking a lot of time for me to paste that shells....the break is great but i'm looking for some faster making alternatives that why i'm so intersting about fast making and good looking ariel shells... here is a video of 3" chrysanthemum 6 with BBQ charcoal (i will never do that mistake agian and still having 1 kilo of those stars) the stars actually not have ani tail...very lame firedust effect , I'm still angry about myself for not checking them before built this shell with it. but the burst was good one. here is the video:http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?a...amp;showfile=13 Edited December 23, 2008 by AgwA
Yankie Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 This may seem a bit of a noobish question, but in some fireworks shows theres two different crackling effects. You get the lots of small cracks, which I suspect are dragon eggs, and then in some shells theres fewer larger crackles that leave a small ball of sparks. Are these just different size/composition of dragon eggs or a different thing all together?
Mumbles Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 There are different thoughts on that matter. Lots of small crackles generally come from a specialized glitter type of reaction. There is some theory that it is a modified "pop glitter". I've never heard one nearly as loud as the chinese. Some others think it is a matrix type of composition with numerous dragon eggs in them. "bad" dragon eggs will produce multiple crackles. It depends on the mesh of the MgAl. The finer, the more crackles you get per grain. The loud single pops are still dragon eggs. The ball of sparks has been said to be a smouldering layer that has been rolled over the dragon egg. I don't know if I would change anything with swervedrivers' shells just yet. They seem to be breaking hard and fairly symetrically as it is. I'd work on getting it lifted to a correct height and see how it looks at an appropriate elevation first. It's best to tackle one issue at a time. Using paper takes more time than plastic, but I think it also gives better results. That is just something you have to accept. The issue with pasting is the setup time. The time it takes to go from scratch to pasting two shells compared to one is nearly negligible. Once I am setup, I could paste a 3" shell in less than 10 minutes, but it takes me over an hour to get all the paste made, paper cut and broken in, etc. I use gummed paper tape, unreinforced, and it saves a lot of time. However it doesn't work for 3" shells with the size of tape I have, so I just don't make them. I can do a 6" shell (15 layers) in about the same time as I could it wet with nearly no setup time. I feel it still sticks to the traditional methods. I don't have to worry about not enough paper causing a poor fit in the gun or any of that.
swervedriver Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) if that is true you porbably use plastic hemisphere am i right?and actually i preffer to spend some time on pasting with reinforced fiberglass gummed tape then spend a lot of money on test starpping tape (if that is what i'm think it is) I agree on the cost issue, it is likely much more cost effective to paste paper shells. My issue is more of a lack of time, but costs are becoming apparent as I delve deeper, lol. Yes, I'm using plastic hemis. 100lb tensile "test" strapping tape can be bought here at a great price though, US$0.90 a roll for the 1/2". I'm using the half inch for the 3" shells- http://www.emgepaper.com/tape.htm they also have 300lb tape! here is a video of 3" chrysanthemum 6 with BBQ charcoal (i will never do that mistake agian and still having 1 kilo of those stars) the stars actually not have ani tail...very lame firedust effect , I'm still angry about myself for not checking them before built this shell with it. but the burst was good one. here is the video:http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?a...amp;showfile=13 beautiful shell there... it looks like you've got a good hangtime of sparks. I've got my new lift powder just about ready. Edited December 23, 2008 by swervedriver
aa92td Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) i thought you talking about Duckt tape earlier....English is not my mother tongue so i dont recognize specificly items by it name in English. Anyway now that I'm having more free time i will work on Fast making 3" shells and will post the results...Cheers AgwA. Edited December 23, 2008 by AgwA
firetech Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 I have heard of popular formula for a white Al streamer consisting of 49 Al 41 KNO3 6 Dextrin 4 Sulfur sometimes called 'kinder eggs'. Has anyone used this before and had success? Thanks
Gunzway Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 I have heard of popular formula for a white Al streamer consisting of 49 Al 41 KNO3 6 Dextrin 4 Sulfur sometimes called 'kinder eggs'. Has anyone used this before and had success? ThanksIt's kind of a blueish-white. I was going to try it but, it sure cuts into my Aluminum supply. I still might, but I will only make 100grams of it. I have not heard of it being used all too much either.
Mumbles Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 That formula is originally a waterfall composition. It's not designed to be used as a star. I happen to agree with Gunzway on this one, not really worthwhile. I won't go off on a rant about this again, but that formula was severely misnamed. As I said before it is a waterfall composition. Someone made stars from it, and placed them into a "kinder egg shell". It's a common thing done in Europe. Some container they get chocolate in or something along the lines of that. Similar to easter egg shells in the US. Someone took it to meaning of this as the composition not the type of container for the stars. Just one more reason I dislike Pyroguide. This where I assume you got it from, as it's the only source of it on the internet I know of.
Chris Posted December 24, 2008 Author Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) Someone should really get rid of that Kinder eggs -page once and for all. Too many misconceptions have emerged from that page. Kinder is a european brand of popular chocolate easter eggs. The eggs contain a plastic container with a surprise toy. The plastic is commonly used as a casing, but someone drew one too many conclusions naming the comp Kinder eggs. The problem with Pyroguide is that most contributions are made by people who do not have enough experience to discuss the subject from all possible aspects. Anyone knowing how to make a 4" shell could write down the procedure, but there is a chance that other alternative better methods might be left out if the author lacks broad knowledge of the subject. Edited December 24, 2008 by Chris
Bonny Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 "bad" dragon eggs will produce multiple crackles. It depends on the mesh of the MgAl. The finer, the more crackles you get per grain. What size of MgAl do you think is best? The eggs I make using 200mesh MgAl often have more than 1 pop. Would 100 mesh be better? Anyway, on another note, I got my 5" double petal shell assembled last night , now it just needs pasting. That was a real PITA to put together. I used a 3" (2.5") set of hemis for the inner petal, with some holes punched in them. I couldn't take any pics as my spouse had the camera. The inner petal is Bleser wht glitter and the outer is ruby red. Hope it works. Should I top fuse? I don't want the fuse being blown in by the lift.
swervedriver Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) Hey Bonny, I was wondering if the inner petal was lit first by a "bucket" type passfire from the spollette, or through holes in the inner petal's shell. I found it- Pyroguide's "Kinder Eggs" Tutorial The thing about a "wiki" is that not only can anyone submit an article, but anyone else can modify it too. It would be easy for someone here to add a note or change something in the article. I see that it mentions "kinder egg shell- a shell using kinder egg stars", and I have to say that is confusing, lol. I think the "knider eggs stars" name is due to the original poster not being of English speaking origin. Edited December 24, 2008 by swervedriver
GraafVaag Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) Done. I had already added a 'discussion' entry for the article some weeks ago but no one ever answered. Since I'm from holland and my english is far from perfect, someone could review the new page and edit it. Edited December 24, 2008 by GraafVaag
Bonny Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 Hey Bonny, I was wondering if the inner petal is typically lit first by a "bucket" type passfire from the spollette, or through holes in the inner petal's shell, as you seem to be doing. The holes in the inner hemis are there help them break and to spread the flame to the outer burst. The timefuse has a bucket that goes right into the centre of the shell (inside the inner hemis) so the burst starts in the centre.
Richtee Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 Done. I had already added a 'discussion' entry for the article some weeks ago but no one ever answered. Since I'm from holland and my english is far from perfect, someone could review the new page and edit it. Looks pretty good to me :{)
Mumbles Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 I'm glad to see that was cleared up at pyroguide. Now my only excuse to bitch is my laziness for not changing anything. As far as I now, the BEST MgAl is -60+100 mesh, though I've seen single crack ones with -100. I have had a hell of a time trying to source the -60 mesh. Firefox has it at the best price I've seen, but who knows what it'll cost after after all the surcharges. I wish I had more knowledge on casting it. I've heard it can be broken up pretty good to this particle size. It's a shame too, I have a bunch of -200 mesh MgAl. Works great for stars at least.
Bonny Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 I'm glad to see that was cleared up at pyroguide. Now my only excuse to bitch is my laziness for not changing anything. As far as I now, the BEST MgAl is -60+100 mesh, though I've seen single crack ones with -100. I have had a hell of a time trying to source the -60 mesh. Firefox has it at the best price I've seen, but who knows what it'll cost after after all the surcharges. I wish I had more knowledge on casting it. I've heard it can be broken up pretty good to this particle size. It's a shame too, I have a bunch of -200 mesh MgAl. Works great for stars at least. I make my own MgAl so that will be no problem to screen out some 60 mesh.MgAl mills very easily in a ball mill. I usually only screen to 100 and 200...the rest goes into random items such as comets, drivers or fountains.Also, should I put the fuse on top when I attach the lift on my 5"? I think it will be fine on the bottom after the pasting, but a flower pot would certainly ruin my day!
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