Aerial Shells

[Mumbles]

Do you end up with a noticable amount build up in the poles on the larger shells? It appears you do two layers at a time, which would put 2 layers at the equater, and about 28 at the pole for a 5" shell. That is what always shyed me away from using a continuous strip method. The WASP uses some off-set algarithm to avoid excessive buildup in spots. They had a marker drawing it out at a PGI trade show one year. It's not something I could likely reproduce without spending a lot of time and care in pasting.

 

I do use a similar smoothing technique, though not a vigorously to avoid crushing the fuse. Since doing it in small strips is slower I also rewet the whole shell before smoothing it out. It removes airbubbles, and makes the pasting denser too. I do the same thing with wet pasted shells too. Perhaps you do as I do and take extra care in the final layer too. Beauty doesn't anways match performance, so I don't know why I'm woried about it.

[Miech]

I do like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh-F1fkOdFg I also use this technique for 4in and 5 in shell.

That is the fastest way of pasting shells I've ever seen . Don't you have trouble finding the hole where you should put your time fuse though? I'm typically a person who would completely loose it and have to unpaste the shell to find it back.

 

I think this method is somewhat less good for pasting shells containing sensitive compositions though. I like colored stars with chlorate very much (Ravaz, Bleser...), and dropping them or handling them rough isn't exactly what I like to do with them.

 

Edit: Don't you get build-up at the poles? It looks like the poles get more layers of paper than the rest of the shell.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Miech

[tentacles]

Miech: He's pretty quick at that, but that's not a full complement of layers.. My WASP uses about 15 feet of 3/4" tape on a 3" shell... and it can crank out a 3 very damn quick! Where it really shines is turning out a 6 in about 4 minutes.

 

Here's the guy's gum tape dispensor/wetting station in action:

 

[qwezxc12]

I think this method is somewhat less good for pasting shells containing sensitive compositions though. I like colored stars with chlorate very much (Ravaz, Bleser...), and dropping them or handling them rough isn't exactly what I like to do with them.

 

Edit: Don't you get build-up at the poles? It looks like the poles get more layers of paper than the rest of the shell.

 

I paste my shells with gummed tape as well. You get some build-up, but I alternate the pole locations on each layer:

Layer1 - 0deg and 180deg on the equator

Layer2 - 90deg east and 90deg west on the equator

Layer3 - north and south poles

 

...and if you are concerned about hand-taping your shells, what sort of set-back forces do you think they experience getting shot out of a mortar? If bottom shots and Maltese Chlorate stars don't go off while being fired from properly constructed shells (the stars locked into place and a barrier between them and the burst), hand taping yours should present no real risk...assuming of course, you're not beating your shells with a hammer during the process

[GraafVaag]

Layer1 - 0deg and 180deg on the equator

Layer2 - 90deg east and 90deg west on the equator

Layer3 - north and south poles

Dude! Genius!

This is one of those irritating moments, when I ask myself why I never thought of that.

[tentacles]

...assuming of course, you're not beating your shells with a hammer during the process

 

You either use a mallet to close the hemis or you use a shell press... This is standard practice. You want the stars to be held in place by the compressed burst, BP/hulls/cottonseed or whatever you use. Most folks at the PGI manufacturing area use a hammer of one sort or another.. most common was a deadblow mallet, I think. I only saw shell press/strap closing methods used on large/very large shells. Noone wants to spend 5 minutes closing their hemis for a 3-6" shell. You really have to hit some of the bigger shells pretty hard, too, if you're using plastic hemis you'll be surprised they don't break on 5-6" shells. You can reasonably squish a 1/4" (all the way around) gap into the shell, this is probably about where you want to load a 5-6" shell. I do 1/8-3/16 on 3-4" shells and it works very well.

 

Hand pasting shells is quite likely the safest part of the shell construction process - Unless you're smoking or sitting around a campfire while you do it.

[BPinthemorning]

What size Black Powder rocket tooling should I get to lift a 2-3in areal shell?

 

(Sorry for going off topic, but I'm making my Christmas list )

[MilkyJoe]

1lb core burners should do it, at least my 1lb hybrid tools do!

 

Where are you buying from?

 

~Milky~

Edited December 7, 2008 by MilkyJoe

[BPinthemorning]

I'm looking at a few, but walter is the best choice it looks like. Any suggestions?

[tentacles]

Steve La Duke, Greg Boyd also make good tooling. Steve's tooling is probably either priced better than Wolter, or includes more bits. You won't go wrong with any of them, really. If you go with Wolter, ask about his "taper pin" tooling. It uses taper pins for the spindles, they are relatively cheap stainless steel pins that you can replace without cursing because you bent a $15-20 spindle.

 

I've seen a 3/8" whistle lift a 140g 3" shell pretty damn high.. at about warp 3.. 1lb tooling should be able to lift a 4 without too much difficulty, as high as you care to put it.

 

edit: FrankRizzo's buddy Tyler is also selling some very nice sets of core burner / whistle tooling.

Edited December 7, 2008 by tentacles

[qwezxc12]

...assuming of course, you're not beating your shells with a hammer during the process

You either use a mallet to close the hemis or you use a shell press... This is standard practice...snip...

Hand pasting shells is quite likely the safest part of the shell construction process - Unless you're smoking or sitting around a campfire while you do it.

 

tentacles,

 

I'm with you there...

 

I was trying for sarcasm...I took away that Miech was stating that taping shells by rolling them and applying gummed tape was somehow more dangerous than pasting using a strip method, presumably because the operator is rolling the shells and that a shell made with chlorate stars is so sensitive that handling during pasting poses a risk. I used firing set-back forces as an example of the force a shell experiences compared to normal handling during construction...guess I wasn't clear.

 

Personally, I *tap* my hemis with a 1.5"x14" wooden dowel to get them to close, not beat them with a hammer...

 

Cheers

[Yankie]

With the pasting thing I used the 3 strip method as I beleive it gives the most even covering.

Layer1 - 0deg and 180deg on the equator

Layer2 - 90deg east and 90deg west on the equator

Layer3 - north and south poles

sounds like a good method, I am still skeptical that there would be some thinner parts between the 6 poles.

 

Sorry to be a bit off topic but does anyone know of a good purple star composition using KClO4 as the oxidiser and CuO as the colourant.

my friend tried shimizu 2 and bleser replacing the dextrin with parlon and using acetone as a solvent (PVC was substituted for Parlon in Bleser)

The bleser turned out an amazing blue, better than conkling by far, comparable to AP blues. The Shimizu was poor with a small flame envelope and poor colour.

I was after this shade of PURPLE

 

Thanks for any replies.

[GraafVaag]

"A bit" off topic indeed, but try this one:

 

27.50 Potassium Perch

22.50 Strontium Nitrate

20.00 Parlon

10.00 German Dark Alu

10.00 Copper(II)Oxide

05.00 Dextrin

[ExplosiveCoek]

I tried that method to and it turned out quite nice and round, only tried it on a 2" though.

 

What compo was that nice blue Yankie? I'm searching for a nice one without Ammonperc since I think it's rather expensive.

 

There are some other Violet colour stars in Shimizu's book as well, maybe you can give them a try?

[yellowcard]

Here's a vid of some shells fired this weekend. It ws a 4'' D1 glitter to emerald green round shell and a 4'' cilinder shell with 4 farfalle inserts and some rows of 20mm D1 pumped stars. The camera didn't capture the green that well. Meal coated rice hulls with 7grams of slowflash was used for the break of the round shell aswel as for the cilinder shell.

Watch in high quality.

 

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=DwPsjMkgaus

 

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=wF-I5IG9AYk

[superman1451]

The farfalles were beautiful. What were their dimensions? Edited December 8, 2008 by superman1451

[yellowcard]

3/4'' with 15% 225-450um TiAl7V4. Over 100 views and 1 reply .

[Pretty green flame]

Very good yellowcard, though I think you could drop the titanium down a bit, say 10%, i think the farfalles could use a bit more power. Overall an excellent shell

[Mumbles]

I also "tap" my shells shut. I have a 1" x ~12" long dowel I use. It's not a pretty piece of wood, but it gets the job done, and it's special to me. I put tap in quotations because I occasionally have to get a little rough them to close. Those are the ones that always preform the best too. I very rarely use chlorate stars, and I am always much more careful when I do so. A longer tapping period can be used in lieu of more force. I find the requirement to overfill and tap to close the shell an often overlooked, but very important part of good ball shell building. When you finish a shell and shake it, you should hear nothing other than some loose burst grains trickling around. Proper packing can negate the use of boosters like flash, or at least reduce them. I get significantly more spherical breaks since I starting doing this. I use KP for just about everything 3-6", and require no booster at all.

 

Qwe, how many layers are you putting on your plastic shells? I seem to remember 3 doubles. I think the use of plastic vs. paper may become problematic in the larger shells we both build. If you're only putting on 3 or 4 layers (6-8 total), it may be fine, but when you require 16-18 like I do, the layer count really becomes an issue. There is an article on passfire for doing it in a continuous strip like that. To compensate for the larger poles not allowing as many layers, he had to use almost 2oz of flash powder in a 6" shell. Slow flash or not, that is excessive and simply not an option for me.

 

I use a similar pole orientation method as Qwe. I however leave around a 1" hole on the top of the shell for a 4"(1.5" on 5 and 6", and 2" on 8"). I then paste over it with strips to get a relatively even layer over the entire shell. I believe I got this general method from Ravaz. If anyone has seen his videos, you certainly cannot argue with success. He makes some very beautiful shells. Once I got good at it, I can do an entire 6" shell with 17 layers (16 doubles, and a single layer on the outside to make it look pretty) in about 45 minutes. If I made a wetting apparatus, I could do it in far less, probably under a half hour. This is using 35# paper, which is generally a bit on the weak side for this size. However the tape is grain long, so I think they cancel each other out. The shells break just fine, and I have a whole case of 1" wide 35# tape, so it stays for now.

[Richtee]

Those are the ones that always preform the best too. I very rarely use chlorate stars, and I am always much more careful when I do so. A longer tapping period can be used in lieu of more force. I find the requirement to overfill and tap to close the shell an often overlooked, but very important part of good ball shell building. When you finish a shell and shake it, you should hear nothing other than some loose burst grains trickling around.

 

My Momma never told me this- This MAY be the one significant point I am missing! THANK YOU!

[qwezxc12]

Qwe, how many layers are you putting on your plastic shells? I seem to remember 3 doubles. I think the use of plastic vs. paper may become problematic in the larger shells we both build. If you're only putting on 3 or 4 layers (6-8 total), it may be fine, but when you require 16-18 like I do, the layer count really becomes an issue. There is an article on passfire for doing it in a continuous strip like that. To compensate for the larger poles not allowing as many layers, he had to use almost 2oz of flash powder in a 6" shell. Slow flash or not, that is excessive and simply not an option for me.

Mumbles,

 

When using fiber re-enforced paper tape, I do indeed use three overlapping layers (3 doubles). I also tried using standard 30lb. tape and making 6 doubles...cost was similar (1/2 the price, but twice as much used) and performance seemed identical, they just took longer to tape up. I do use a booster of slow flash, ~5g in a 4in and 20g in a 6in, IIRC (no notes handy right now). The hemis from Pyrocasings are slightly smaller than those from Cannonfuse/Pyro Creations, allowing the shell to still fit well with the tape.

[Mumbles]

I don't have as much experience with smaller shells (3" and smaller), but the denser packing sure helps in larger shells. There was a noticeable increase in symmetry and performance. While on the topic of helpful hints, use quickmatch, or something similar to pass the fire from the timefuse/spolette to the center of the shell. This also helps more with symmetry than anything it seems. I've heard to do this on canisters as well. I actually run a piece of quickmatch the entire length of the shell. I'm not sure how beneficial it is, but it works for me. I use the blue 5 strand flat quickmatch. It explodes when lit, so I personally just think that it gives it a little extra boost.

 

Thats good to know about the tape. I've been looking at an expedident way to make smaller ball shells. I have no desire to fire them alone so if they don't fit in a gun, oh well. I was looking at them to use as inserts for shell of shells in 8, 10, and 12" ball shells.

 

This is the background on my computer, and I want to recreate it someday.

 

http://japan-fireworks.com/gallery/regular...e_senrin910.jpg

[Miech]

Be sure to catch it on video then you shoot it . If I would shoot such a thing where I live I would be in serious trouble, as it is still illegal here to make, own and shoot fireworks.

[Mumbles]

Oh, it will be on video. I'd like to try to get a long exposure picture too so I could compare the two and see how close I got.

[Miech]

Here is a shell I shot about 2 weeks ago. It must have been the worst looking shell I've ever produced, but it worked.

 

The flare was too bright for my camera. It actually illuminated the whole field I was standing on.