how to make kno3 from fertilizer

[Pirotecnia]

When i were living in Portugal, was easy to me to obtain Potassium nitrate. Now, i'm living in Brazil, and here is more difficult to get this magic compound!

 

Then, i found a source of kno3, and now i need your help to purify it. The fertilizer is a composition of 32% of nitrogen and 1% of potassium oxide. The rest of the composition i think that are impurities.

 

Have you some ideas of how can i extract pure kno3 from this? For 1 kilo of this fertilizer, how much kno3 could i get?

 

Below, somos photos of the fertilizer called "salitre", in english, "salpeter"

 

Thank you!!

Edited October 10, 2014 by Pirotecnia

[Mumbles]

From those values, and a little digging, it looks like you have a mixture of sodium and potassium nitrate. Given the K2O values, it looks like it is mostly sodium nitrate. 1% K2O is about 97% NaNO3 and 3% KNO3.

[taiwanluthiers]

By the way sodium nitrate still makes good bp, it might be a bit hygroscopic though. It is useless for anything of color other than orange (but actually, kno3 isn't really useful for color stars if you think about it)

[schroedinger]

If it is sodium nitrate, just boil 84 g of it with, 74 g of pottasium chloride.

The formed sodium chloride will precipate first during boiling down, take it out and you will get your kno3. But It's not very easy to tell the point when the right point is reached.

Much easier (but more expensive) would be to treat the solution of sodium nitrate with pottasium oxalate.

[WSM]

From those values, and a little digging, it looks like you have a mixture of sodium and potassium nitrate. Given the K2O values, it looks like it is mostly sodium nitrate. 1% K2O is about 97% NaNO3 and 3% KNO3.

 

A wikipedia search yields:

 

"On industrial scale it is prepared by the double displacement reaction between sodium nitrate and potassium chloride.

 

NaNO₃ (aq) + KCl (aq) → NaCl (aq) + KNO₃ (aq)"

 

If you can find a source for potassium chloride, this process may allow you to make your own KNO₃. The trick will be making the resulting potassium nitrate sodium free (difficult but possible; it's done industrially).

 

WSM

[Pirotecnia]

Thanks people!

 

Today, i bought another box, this time with a mix of 15% Nitrogen and 14% of Potassium oxide. Can i mix the content of this box with the content of the other box and then do the procedure with the Potassium Chloride?

 

Thanks!

[WSM]

Thanks people!

Today, i bought another box, this time with a mix of 15% Nitrogen and 14% of Potassium oxide. Can i mix the content of this box with the content of the other box and then do the procedure with the Potassium Chloride?

Thanks!

 

I don't see why not, nothing has changed besides the percentages (all the same materials are there).

 

WSM

[Pirotecnia]

Hi,

Fortunately, i got a source of KNO3 almost pure. Although, this KNO3 comes with anticake aditive. Is it prejuditial to make a good Black Powder? Is there some way to remove it?

Thanks!

[schroedinger]

Well most often atca is SiO2 with is now problem. You could get rid of it by dissolving the kno3 and filtrating, but i wouldn't do that it doesn't harm and easens the handling after some storage time

[Pirotecnia]

Thanks everyone!

[smokeytech]

As a caveat to this question, does anybody know a good fertilizer in the US that you can use to extract KNO3?

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.mypixshare.net/files/img/user_uploads/displayimage.php?id=qtobj2b6x7287136734.gif

[schroedinger]

Get stump remover, no extraction needed, buy at skylighter.com or other pyro supplier or even better find a pyro club nearby and order together with them.

[gregh]

Kelp4less.com is fairly cheap. I got 25lb for $37 and free shipping.

 

https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/potassium-nitrate/

Edited October 25, 2014 by gregh

[Milyan720]

It doesnt harm to recystalise it though

[WSM]

Hi,

Fortunately, i got a source of KNO3 almost pure. Although, this KNO3 comes with anticake aditive. Is it prejuditial to make a good Black Powder? Is there some way to remove it?

Thanks!

 

For BP or rockets, the anticake doen't matter. I'm told silicon dioxide interferes with glitter, but I haven't noticed any problems with it. If the potassium nitrate is fine enough, just use it and see how it works for you. "The proof is in the pudding"

 

WSM

[pyrojig]

Pudding sounds good..... hhhmmm May have to try pudding stars . I too have noticed that the nitrate with anti cake is not noticeably diff . from the one w/o. Never tried the anti-cake in glitter comps. It just makes more sense to just freshly mill nitrate for glitter anyways . If your milled stored stuff is clumping just rub it through a screen .

[smokeytech]

Hey thanks guys, appreciate it.

[MadMat]

I get my KNO3 from Dudadiesel. $17.99 for 10 lbs. Their MSDs states 99.8% purity. They have other options, from 1 up to 50 lb bags. It is prilled, but 10 seconds in the blender and I'm go to go

Edited October 5, 2018 by MadMat

[drPsyx]

Hello to all from EU where rules and regulations are ridiculously strict and there s no Stump Remover or even Instant Ice Packs with Ammonium Nitrate.
There is though (fairly cheap)
Potassium Nitrate Fertilizer : NPK 13-0-46

And i read :

13% Nitrate Ion (NO3)

The molecular weight of NO3 = 62.0049

The molecular weight of N = 14.0067

62.0049 / 14.0067 = 4.42

(13*4.42=57.5% NO3)

0% Phosphorus (P)

46% Potassium Oxide (K2O)

The molecular weight of K2O = 94.196

The molecular weight of K = 39.0983

We need to see that K2O is a measure of a substance with two K for each O.

So we must double the weight of K before finding the factor. 39.0983 * 2 = 78.1786

94.196 / 78.1786 = 1.2

(46/1.2=38.3% Potassium)

57.5% + 38.3% = 95.8% Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)

Does it mean that the fertilizer has 95.8% KNO3 even it needs purification ??????

Thank you all

[WSM]

Hello to all from EU where rules and regulations are ridiculously strict and there s no Stump Remover or even Instant Ice Packs with Ammonium Nitrate.

There is though (fairly cheap)

Potassium Nitrate Fertilizer : NPK 13-0-46

And i read :

13% Nitrate Ion (NO3)

The molecular weight of NO3 = 62.0049

The molecular weight of N = 14.0067

62.0049 / 14.0067 = 4.42

(13*4.42=57.5% NO3)

0% Phosphorus (P)

46% Potassium Oxide (K2O)

The molecular weight of K2O = 94.196

The molecular weight of K = 39.0983

We need to see that K2O is a measure of a substance with two K for each O.

So we must double the weight of K before finding the factor. 39.0983 * 2 = 78.1786

94.196 / 78.1786 = 1.2

(46/1.2=38.3% Potassium)

57.5% + 38.3% = 95.8% Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)

Does it mean that the fertilizer has 95.8% KNO3 even it needs purification ??????

Thank you all

 

 

Mill the fertilizer potassium nitrate to powder and try it in rockets or whatever, and see if it works. I expect it will work well if no hydroscopic additives are mixed in. Another thing is to observe the flame of burning compositions using it; look for the telltale characteristic violet flame of potassium, which is a good indication of serviceable potassium nitrate.

 

If there are options, I prefer the greenhouse grade (granular) over the prilled, but both will work; and should be milled before use.

 

Good luck.

 

WSM

Edited December 10, 2020 by WSM

[WSM]

Mill the fertilizer potassium nitrate to powder and try it in rockets or whatever, and see if it works. I expect it will work well if no hydroscopic additives are mixed in. Another thing is to observe the flame of burning compositions using it; look for the telltale characteristic violet flame of potassium, which is a good indication of serviceable potassium nitrate.

If there are options, I prefer the greenhouse grade (granular) over the prilled, but both will work; and should be milled before use.

Good luck.

 

 

My first mixtures using fertilizer grade potassium nitrate were for rockets. The nitrate looked "fine enough" out of the bag, it was not!

 

My rockets were inverted gerbes, without enough thrust to lift out of the rack. I learned that lesson the hard way, but my friends were entertained by the failure , till they realized the rockets had shell headers on them ! They complimented me on the color of the stars as we were running away .

 

WSM

[SeaMonkey]

Back in February of this year Member Jimjones, also in Brazil, made this posting.

 

This is the photo he provided of the Potassium Nitrate he found in Brazil which worked

very well for his Black Powder.

 

For others who may live in areas where Potassium Nitrate is difficult to purchase, if you

have a good supply of Wood Ashes it is possible to make your own without too much effort

or cost.

 

The Wood Ashes are a source for Potassium Carbonate.

 

Nitric Acid in low concentration can be made from Air and Water.

 

Search result for Videos on How to Make Nitric Acid from Air

 

The videos show a simple approach to making the Nitrogen Dioxide

Generator which, while it works reasonably well, has room for improvement.

 

Just shows how a little "ingenuity" can be put to work replicating the old

Birkeland-Eyde process. For use in a pinch.

[drPsyx]

First thank you all for the replies and the info.

Its a ton of it and i will need to make a lot of things clear to myself first.
The good thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world, so there s a lot of time of reading theory.

The bad thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world and there s no time for practice and experiments.

But its always good to read and re-read theory.

 

So,

I also found 1 Kgr packages of KNO₃ (3,5 euros/kgr) which are named "Potassium Nitrate TECHNICAL" in their website

(dont ask me what this is, i have no idea)
There s no formula on the package but there's a company name which also makes fertilizers.

This package though is clearly mentioned as KNO₃ chemical.

It doesnt say fertilizer anywhere.

 

 

 

 

Now about the fertilizers.

The sure thing is that the fertilizer packages (25 kgr each) contain 3 chemicals:
Nitrogen (N) - Phosphate (P₂O₅) - Potash (K₂O)
each one represented with a number

So jimjones (the brazilian) fertilizer is : 13-2-44
which means it has Phosphate in it.

Now, from what I read, this is not good.

I m still learning. I dont know. Thats what I read.

The ones I can find here though... HAVE NOT phosphate at all.
There are:
13-0-46 (prills) (33 euros/25kgr)
13.2-0-46

13.5-0-46.2 (Greenhouse Grade) (41 euros/25kgr or 1.64 euro/kgr)

this one seems to be very "clean".

13.5*4.42=59.67% NO₃

and

46.2/1.2=38.5% Potassium
so something like 98.17% of KNO₃

I guess I will go for it.

The point is what should i do with 25 kgr of KNO₃ ?

Add 7 kgr of sugar and send it to space.

[Carbon796]

Get the GG, it should be table salt like consistency. The prilled usually has a small amount of clay associated with it. Part of the prilling process iirc.

[WSM]

 

First thank you all for the replies and the info.

Its a ton of it and i will need to make a lot of things clear to myself first.

The good thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world, so there s a lot of time of reading theory.

The bad thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world and there s no time for practice and experiments.

But its always good to read and re-read theory.

 

So,

I also found 1 Kgr packages of KNO₃ (3,5 euros/kgr) which are named "Potassium Nitrate TECHNICAL" in their website

(dont ask me what this is, i have no idea)

There s no formula on the package but there's a company name which also makes fertilizers.

This package though is clearly mentioned as KNO₃ chemical.

It doesnt say fertilizer anywhere.

 

 

 

 

Now about the fertilizers.

The sure thing is that the fertilizer packages (25 kgr each) contain 3 chemicals:

Nitrogen (N) - Phosphate (P₂O₅) - Potash (K₂O)

each one represented with a number

So jimjones (the brazilian) fertilizer is : 13-2-44

which means it has Phosphate in it.

Now, from what I read, this is not good.

I m still learning. I dont know. Thats what I read.

The ones I can find here though... HAVE NOT phosphate at all.

There are:

13-0-46 (prills) (33 euros/25kgr)

13.2-0-46

13.5-0-46.2 (Greenhouse Grade) (41 euros/25kgr or 1.64 euro/kgr)

this one seems to be very "clean".

13.5*4.42=59.67% NO₃

and

46.2/1.2=38.5% Potassium

so something like 98.17% of KNO₃

I guess I will go for it.

The point is what should i do with 25 kgr of KNO₃ ?

Add 7 kgr of sugar and send it to space.

 

 

 

You should always mill the fertilizer potassium nitrate to a fine powder before use. As to which one to buy; if price matters more, get the prilled, and if purity matters more, get the greenhouse grade.

 

They both work for rockets and black powder, and both types need to be milled before use. If using it for glitter or specialty stars, perhaps the greenhouse grade will work better.

 

When I first started using fertilizer grades of KNO₃, all I had access to was the prilled. It worked fine after being ball-milled to powder. Greenhouse grade is all I have used since learning the difference, but then they cost the same here.

 

Congratulations on sourcing saltpeter and welcome to the wonderful and exciting world of amateur pyrotechnics...

 

WSM