Delay prime

[enanthate]

Guys,

 

I'm in the middle of the process of making some different coloured stars, wanting to prime them with a delay-prime. Found several threads on the subject, but I'm still a bit confused. Your experiences could probably help me out!

 

So I want my stars to ignite a second or two after break. To be very precise; I want the shell to go "Boom". Now it's dark, nothing there. Couple of seconds later, colours all over the place.

Do I use a colourchanging relay for this, or is there a delay-comp specifically designed for this purpose?

 

 

Cheers,

enan

[dagabu]

Try this one:

 

Potassium Nitrate 0.750

Charcoal (airfloat) 0.080

Potassium Perchlorate 0.070

Dextrin or SGRS 0.050

Antimony Trisulfide, dark pyro or Chinese needle 0.030

Red Gum 0.020

(parts, not by weight)

[enanthate]

Cheers dag, will try that in a couple of days when I get my Antimony trisulfide.

 

Why is there Al in there? Won't that composition be quite bright?

Got German Dark, could that substitute the dark pyro?

[Mumbles]

I'm not sure what you mean by "parts, not by weight". It's already in percentage form.

 

You'll be able to find several "dark relay" formulas around. Shimizu has a couple in FAST. There are some others available with some searching too by more advanced amateurs. They're usually used between color layers of color changing stars. This is in part how some of the Japanese and Chinese shells achieve the almost blinking color change quality. It prevents the two colors from muddying each other up at the composition interface, and well as providing a short dark period which makes things look more crisp.

 

This said, the dark relays really aren't totally dark. It's more by comparison to the much brighter stars that they appear basically invisible. If you had nothing else to contrast them, you can usually see the stars burning still. They're dim, but not invisible. I'm also not sure about their burn speeds. You may want to watch some videos of ghost shells. They basically do what you want, but ignite the stars in a wave from one end to the other. Many times you can see some of the dark stars before they light, but it doesn't really detract from the effect too much.

 

This will probably take some experimentation on your behalf. I'd start with rolling a batch of stars. From there you can try out small batches with different dark delays over the top. Probably just fired from a mine will give you a decent idea. If you can barely see them in a mine, you'll never see them in a shell. Besides the dark relay compositions, something like Glusatz might work. It's relatively dark burning, and burns quite slow so you don't need an excessively thick layer.

 

Most of the shells that achieve an effect like you describe don't use an entirely dark break. They will have a dark outer petal, with one or two colored inner petals. The light from the inner petals makes the outer petals basically invisible. There are some crackle shells that break relatively dark before exploding into sparks a few seconds on. These again are somewhat visible if you know what to expect. If you weren't looking for something though, it can be hidden. It may also be from how they function. They have a slaggy delay on the outside that gets sprayed out when the dragon eggs go off. The same principle may not work with colored stars.

 

As an easier alternative, might I also suggest a shell of shells? There really is no special trick to them. If you use time fuse, the trail left by the inserts is quite dim. It'd still accomplish a burst of color as well. I don't want to discourage you or anything. Just something to think about, at least while you perfect the dark comps.

[dagabu]

I'm not sure what you mean by "parts, not by weight". It's already in percentage form.

 

You'll be able to find several "dark relay" formulas around. Shimizu has a couple in FAST. There are some others available with some searching too by more advanced amateurs. They're usually used between color layers of color changing stars. This is in part how some of the Japanese and Chinese shells achieve the almost blinking color change quality. It prevents the two colors from muddying each other up at the composition interface, and well as providing a short dark period which makes things look more crisp.

 

This said, the dark relays really aren't totally dark. It's more by comparison to the much brighter stars that they appear basically invisible. If you had nothing else to contrast them, you can usually see the stars burning still. They're dim, but not invisible. I'm also not sure about their burn speeds. You may want to watch some videos of ghost shells. They basically do what you want, but ignite the stars in a wave from one end to the other. Many times you can see some of the dark stars before they light, but it doesn't really detract from the effect too much.

 

This will probably take some experimentation on your behalf. I'd start with rolling a batch of stars. From there you can try out small batches with different dark delays over the top. Probably just fired from a mine will give you a decent idea. If you can barely see them in a mine, you'll never see them in a shell. Besides the dark relay compositions, something like Glusatz might work. It's relatively dark burning, and burns quite slow so you don't need an excessively thick layer.

 

Most of the shells that achieve an effect like you describe don't use an entirely dark break. They will have a dark outer petal, with one or two colored inner petals. The light from the inner petals makes the outer petals basically invisible. There are some crackle shells that break relatively dark before exploding into sparks a few seconds on. These again are somewhat visible if you know what to expect. If you weren't looking for something though, it can be hidden. It may also be from how they function. They have a slaggy delay on the outside that gets sprayed out when the dragon eggs go off. The same principle may not work with colored stars.

 

As an easier alternative, might I also suggest a shell of shells? There really is no special trick to them. If you use time fuse, the trail left by the inserts is quite dim. It'd still accomplish a burst of color as well. I don't want to discourage you or anything. Just something to think about, at least while you perfect the dark comps.

 

It's Gorski's based on Shimizu. Pretty sure that is advanced enough there Mum...

[enanthate]

I've been looking at Glusatz, but my recipe here says "cab-o-sil" and "CMC". Dunno what CMC is, and don't have cab-o-sil. Looks like this is something worth purchasing.

 

I'm only firing ball shells for now, as the cylinder shells require some more workspace that I don't have at the moment. Could fit three 3" in a 6", that's all I have for now. Will purchase some smaller shells, a shell of shells certainly makes a cool effect.

 

Will look into charcoalbased dark relay compositions. I imagine these compositions can make TT-stars look even better overall, with the "teasing" TT-like effect before the stars turn bright and wider trails appears.

 

 

For the next stars I'm planning to improve my skills on Dragon eggs, making stars that ends as a huge flower of crackling eggs. Been reading alot, but like everything else, peoples experiences are quite different. Have only experimented slightly with two batches so far, using these comps:

Bismuth trioxide Dragon eggs

Bismuth trioxide 75

Magnalium (-200 mesh) 15

Copper (II) oxide (black) 10

Aluminium (atomized, -200 mesh) +5

Nitrocellulose lacquer 10%

 

Dragon eggs Prime

Potassium perchlorate 70

Magnalium (granular, -200 mesh) 20

Red gum 10

 

 

Granulated into ~1-2mm granules, these DE's weren't a great success. A single granule would pop, creating a few smaller, unpowerful crackles (and the uneven timing, gees!).

I used #250 MgAl, #400 Al. My acetone/NC was way too thick, about 20-25% by volume. Yup, I messed up.

Where did I go wrong? Or, where did I go most wrong, lol? Got 10-100mesh MgAl coming, will that solve my problem? That and 10% NC-laquer, as it should be..

Edited September 25, 2014 by enanthate

[dagabu]

I've been looking at Glusatz, but my recipe here says "cab-o-sil" and "CMC". Dunno what CMC is, and don't have cab-o-sil. Looks like this is something worth purchasing.

 

I'm only firing ball shells for now, as the cylinder shells require some more workspace that I don't have at the moment. Could fit three 3" in a 6", that's all I have for now. Will purchase some smaller shells, a shell of shells certainly makes a cool effect.

 

Will look into charcoalbased dark relay compositions. I imagine these compositions can make TT-stars look even better overall, with the "teasing" TT-like effect before the stars turn bright and wider trails appears.

 

 

For the next stars I'm planning to improve my skills on Dragon eggs, making stars that ends as a huge flower of crackling eggs. Been reading alot, but like everything else, peoples experiences are quite different. Have only experimented slightly with two batches so far, using these comps:

Bismuth trioxide Dragon eggs

Bismuth trioxide 75

Magnalium (-200 mesh) 15

Copper (II) oxide (black) 10

Aluminium (atomized, -200 mesh) +5

Nitrocellulose lacquer 10%

 

Dragon eggs Prime

Potassium perchlorate 70

Magnalium (granular, -200 mesh) 20

Red gum 10

 

 

Granulated into ~1-2mm granules, these DE's weren't a great success. A single granule would pop, creating a few smaller, unpowerful crackles (and the uneven timing, gees!).

I used #250 MgAl, #400 Al. My acetone/NC was way too thick, about 20-25% by volume. Yup, I messed up.

Where did I go wrong? Or, where did I go most wrong, lol? Got 10-100mesh MgAl coming, will that solve my problem? That and 10% NC-laquer, as it should be..

 

 

Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) or cellulose gum.

[enanthate]

Any idea where to get that in the EU?

In foodproducts, etc...

Only one item available at ebay, 1kg ($60). Don't need 1kg...

Cake decorating it says. Must be available in a grocerystore?

[enanthate]

By the way!

Sorry guys, I'm off track here. Might wanna rename the thread to "general questions" or something.

Just got back into the hobby after a 4 months break, I'm eager as f*** to make everything.

 

Red strobes. Can this comp be remade into a parlon-bound one? Any1 sitting on a parlonbound strobecomp?

 

60% Sr (NO3) 2 20% Magnalium 10% sulfur 10% dextrine

[dagabu]

Any idea where to get that in the EU?

In foodproducts, etc...

Only one item available at ebay, 1kg ($60). Don't need 1kg...

Cake decorating it says. Must be available in a grocerystore?

 

Look for liquid thickeners but watch out for the corn starch ones.

[Davidg1]

Any idea where to get that in the EU?

In foodproducts, etc...

Only one item available at ebay, 1kg ($60). Don't need 1kg...

Cake decorating it says. Must be available in a grocerystore?

CMC is used in most wallpaper adhesive packets.

[enanthate]

Got my chinese needle, will make some of your comp now, dag.

You said parts, not by weight. I'm sure you didn't mean by volume? If not, what's the difference? Parts, grams, ounces, it's all the same as long as it's not by volume. Right?

[dagabu]

Parts is a reference to comps that do not add up to 100%, i.e. 78:13:10 would be 101% but in parts it

 

Got my chinese needle, will make some of your comp now, dag.

You said parts, not by weight. I'm sure you didn't mean by volume? If not, what's the difference? Parts, grams, ounces, it's all the same as long as it's not by volume. Right?

 

Correct.