dagabu Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) Yes, you are crazy. If your mill burns outside you may end up like me but you may live. If your mill burns inside you will lose your house and probably your life. The amount of heat generated by a pound of black powder is enormous and to store anything that can burn like that (stars, comets, shells etc) indoors is nothing less than a death wish if it lights. I had an old shed I stored finished stuff in long ago and now leave it all at a licensed builders magazine. Chems seem to be OK indoors (garage) but keep the oxidizers and metals/fuels far away from each other. Edited September 30, 2014 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Milling is a bomb waiting to go off. You don't want that in a livingspace. People who mill "indoors" do that in buildings dedicated for the milling / pyro activity alone. (and they don't do anything else in the space while the milling is ongoing)Storage... Again, not in the living environment, or in any spaces tied to it. Bottom line is, it WILL go off. At some point and time. You don't want it to hurt or damage people or property at that point.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Wait, so you all mill your bp outdoors? I knew some of you did, but some are milling indoors too, right? Mine is next to my livingroom, hence the noise-issue.. This reminds me to do a little safety-check with you guys. I store everything indoors, as I have no other place to stash it (nope, nowhere). Stars are well separated and stored in a large box, same goes for bp on hulls, lift, etc. Flash and whistle are only made and used when needed.Am I crazy? I hope not, cause if this is crazyness then I would have to quit this hobby. Dont want that. Dont want that.... Milling outside in a bunkered area as far away as possible from everything is the safest scenario. Remote start and stop the mill. Some of us even go to extremes. Finished product like stars and BP should be stored in a magazine outside of the living premises and away from your manufacturing area. Many of us are limited in that regards as Dagabu mentioned. Imagine stored stars using a composition that could chemically react and then ignite. Not good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enanthate Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) Wow, dag. I remember hearing about it, but never heard what happened?Is that first picture really after the accident? It's good to see how well you look. I've seen so many videos and pictures where people mill indoors, so I assumed it was "OK", that it was normal. Pictures like yours makes one think though.If I had my own garden I wouldve stored it all out there long ago. All I have is outside-stairs to my apartment. Will store everything there from now on, and find a better place asap. We're looking to buy a house within the next few months, so might put my hobby on hold until then. Thanks for the heads-up folks. You might have saved my life. Edited September 29, 2014 by enanthate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) Enanthate Dave, I hope you don't mind me saying. The first pic was before the accident. Maybe he will let you see his more recent photos. It don't get much more clear about how safety is an absolute priority. Even when you know what your doing and have been doing this for years like Dave has been...freak accidents are almost guaranteed. So treat this stuff with TLC. And know when we talk about safety this, safety that, it's not being a nag or a sissy but caring for our fellow pyrofans. A phrase my dad said when I was 12 years old " take care and no goofing around with this stuff, it takes getting bit just once like a Philippine cobra" I pray that something like this never happens to any of us. Taking this stuff seriously, it can afford you limb retention, secured sanity (toxic chemicals), and enjoyment for both you and the people watching. In hope, John Edited September 29, 2014 by Sparx88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) Wow, dag. I remember hearing about it, but never heard what happened?Is that first picture really after the accident? It's good to see how well you look. I've seen so many videos and pictures where people mill indoors, so I assumed it was "OK", that it was normal. Pictures like yours makes one think though.If I had my own garden I wouldve stored it all out there long ago. All I have is outside-stairs to my apartment. Will store everything there from now on, and find a better place asap. We're looking to buy a house within the next few months, so might put my hobby on hold until then. Thanks for the heads-up folks. You might have saved my life. Oh HELL no! This is me now. Edited September 30, 2014 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Dag, we're getting way off topic here but I've been meaning to ask you if you still have a beard to shave and if so, how much of a PITA is it to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Text & pictures.Hey Bob. That doesn't look half bad, but... I would worry about cinder-block shrapnel. I helped a mate of mine with something similar, using storm-drain cement pipe. 2 units one on top of the other got berried in the ground, and the fist one was filled with construction aggregate. It's deep enough to be somewhat of a pain to place and recover the milling containers from it, but the mill it self is easy to place, since you have to climb in to the darn hole...It also helps directing the sound straight up from the mill, so there is a lot less noise in the vicinity.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 B, block shrapnel would aim to the empty field and woods. The front block work is pinned with EMT at the front corners to swing out should there be an explosion. Would work very similar to a claymore. The backside is dug into the hillside and completely below ground level. I have the same issue with this bunker getting the mill and jar in and out. It is deeper than it looks especially after lugging the sandbags off the top. The wood/rubber cover and sandbags muffle the sound very effectively, almost have to be right next to it to hear it rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Dag, we're getting way off topic here but I've been meaning to ask you if you still have a beard to shave and if so, how much of a PITA is it to do? Nope, thats all skin from my back, no more hair to shave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Nope, thats all skin from my back, no more hair to shave. I guess not unless you had a hairy back. Back on topic, been milling a whole lotta BP lately and experienced my first ever mill clumping today. Wasn't too bad, about 1/4-3/8" thick across the entire bottom of the Thumler barrel. None clumped on the side walls. Used the same chems and mill times I normally use, only difference was the outside air temperature (OAT) and humidity level this morning at 52 degrees and heavy wet dew on the ground. I keep the mill, barrel and media outside in the bunker which is probably not good when overnight temps fall below 50 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 And how fast is your clumping powder compared to your normal stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 And how fast is your clumping powder compared to your normal stuff? Appears just as fast as the normal BP during a burn test. It was not a timed test though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enanthate Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I had that alot when I first started doing this, turned out that cooking the charcoal and kno3 in the oven at 75C for an hour removed this issue 100%.Also experienced once that some BP had turned into clumps at the exact same size and shape as my milling media. I thought at first it was milling media covered in BP, but it was pure BP-balls, quite hard. Strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm pretty sure it was due to the chems absorbing moisture from the air and drum liner. Today, the remaining clumps are falling apart into free flowing powder. The burn test pile had some small clumps still intact but the powder thoroughly burned without major residue left behind. http://youtu.be/SS6zn6mMVlI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enanthate Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 That's a fast powder, good job. How long did you mill it? My mill is doing a poor job these days, appears that it has been doing this after my summerbreak from the hobby. Gotta cook my chems...I mill my 3lb drum (85 RPM) with 100g BP for 6 hrs to reach that kind of BP, with ~11mm alumina ceramic balls. Threw in some 20mm cylinder pebbles recently to try that, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Any advice?Although, cooking my powders might make a big difference. It also makes it nice to work with, so will probably do it anyway. Had some kno3 with anti-clumping, tried this for BP and it doesn't seem to make a difference to me. Have only tried it in one batch so can't say for sure. Does this affect the results any noticeably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Thanks, enanthate. The charcoal used does make a significant difference in BP speed. My "normal" 15lb drum chem charge is Paulownia C with pre-milled Skylighter KN03 prills, Skylighter sulfur and usually dextrin milled for 4 hours for 1.5 lb total. Can't advise on your 3lb drum except to say that lead media would probably help shorten your mill run time as well as produce a finer more consolidated BP. The anti clump additives like Cabosil do not affect the BP power with any significance unless too much is used. Other comps like star formulas it can affect the final performance. I've relegated my 6lb HF mill for individual chem milling with alumina ceramic media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milyan720 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I do each chemical in a coffee grinder for 1-2 mins then 30seconds in coffee grinder together, I make about 10-20 grams at a time. I only make small rockets so I dont need much.Im pretty confident with the coffee grinder and it make bp that is much faster than the one in the video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Under no circumstances what-so-ever should you ever coffee mill a live composition. No one wants you to be the next accident. There have been far too many lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Holy paper devil dog batman, um ya, what he ^^^^^^^^^ said. Just in case you need a second opinion, Don't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I do each chemical in a coffee grinder for 1-2 mins then 30seconds in coffee grinder together, I make about 10-20 grams at a time. I only make small rockets so I dont need much.Im pretty confident with the coffee grinder and it make bp that is much faster than the one in the videoWhy stop at 10-20 grams. Make a couple of 100 gram batches. Why? If your going to end up with parts of a coffee grinder permanently stuck inside of your self, at least make it a good bang. Seriously. Ball mills are the only way your ever allowed to mill a live composition. And thats only when loaded with non sparking media, like brass, lead, and some types of ceramic and stainless steel media. You do not com on here and post about yourself blowing up a coffee grinder, if you do, I'm not going to feel sorry for you. Wanna use the coffee grinder? Go ahead. Use it to mill the pure stuff, and then screen your BP together. Wet it and granulate it. It wont be as fast. But at least you'll live.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A mill will give you more consistant results, its better to do one batch of 100g than 5 batches of 20g. The coffee grinder risks cross contamination unless you use a seperate grinder for each chemical. A ball mill is cheaper than 3 coffee grinders, if you diy its cheaper than one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcherryxoxo Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why is making black powder so difficult for some people? It is probably the easiest process in this hobby, and if you are struggling with the concepts involved, my best advice is to find a new hobby; maybe go get yourself some play-do or watercolor paint. In regards to safety, all I can do is quote the words of another pyro, (in the discussion of a pyro related accident) "What the beginner should take away from this is that you have to assume you will ALWAYS have an accident, whom it effects and how you recover from it is the difference." - Eric Hunkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why is making black powder so difficult for some people? It is probably the easiest process in this hobby, and if you are struggling with the concepts involved, my best advice is to find a new hobby; maybe go get yourself some play-do or watercolor paint.I would argue that your wrong. But it doesn't really matter. The reason for my quote is simple that you still haven't got around to being (just) mildly offensive. How about you try, just once, not to intentionally piss off everyone you speak to? My guess is that you hate the world, and try to punish everyone around you, but thats just from your posts, and i sure hope thats not the whole story.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why is making black powder so difficult for some people? It is probably the easiest process in this hobby, and if you are struggling with the concepts involved, my best advice is to find a new hobby; maybe go get yourself some play-do or watercolor paint. In regards to safety, all I can do is quote the words of another pyro, (in the discussion of a pyro related accident) "What the beginner should take away from this is that you have to assume you will ALWAYS have an accident, whom it effects and how you recover from it is the difference." - Eric Hunkins My heart fills with pity for that smart, hurt man. I am lucky I don't have his life, I wouldn't trade my scars for his any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts