Raspberry pi Firing system

[schroedinger]

Hi

 

I will start somewhere around next month with building a new firing system (My 4th). This one will be using a raspberry pi as the controlling unit.

Atm, I'm planning to get it running on a slackware type linux (either it will be ARMed Slack or openSuse).

It won't get a GUI.

 

Are some of you interested in building their own based on the Pi and got some experience or are just interested in building a Pi based system and need the source?

 

If a couple people are interested i would publish the source code (ofc free for apc members) and try to incorporate some functions you could ask for? But only if a real interest is there.

I would try to get the first version read until Christmas, so it is ready for NYE.

[MrB]

I'm pretty sure that a "buy things and stick them together" solution, preferably wireless, with a tiny webserver for the que triggers and so on, so you could remote it with any WiFi / LAN device would make a lot of people happy. The only problem is, all the Pi builds that i've seen, for what ever use, starts out on a pretty small budget, and then expands in to the thousands. That means it ends up costing more then the device it's supposed to "replace" and more often then not, it does the job worse, or just barely as good, and even then it's a lot harder to build, configure, and use.

Most of the ventures i've seen to this effect ends with the project core group being miffed about everyone else shying away from the cost and sort of blaming these "others" for the cost being based on their requested features.

 

What i mean is that your probably better of outlining what features you intend to add, ask for possible requests before doing anything. From there simply figure out what everything costs, cut features that cost to much for the benefit it provides. Pretty much, be angry and cut more then you keep if your doing requests.

B!

[schroedinger]

B off course i will need to cut out many things if they are going to be expensive, and this is one of the main aims off this build (e.g. why I won't start working on gui).

A WLAN/LAN function is a nice idea, and I need to say i never thought about that before, but actually it could help with cutting cost, as this would allow me spare out the cost for a small 4.5" monitor in field and allow working via ssh.

Edited September 7, 2014 by schroedinger

[MrB]

SSH would work, but require text commands to be issued. Great for diagnostics and so on, but not available on all mobile devices. I would really suggest tiny web-server with the interface on it as the goal.

 

(It would also let me get away with using it on my mobile device, which does SSH out of the box, but since it takes me forever to type anything on it, i'm sort of screwed anyway. I'd be forced to go with a laptop, and Putty to get an effective setup :-p )

 

Setting it up as a WiFi device with a web-interface means you need the password for the WiFi to access it at all, and you could simply add a second & third layer of security by putting the webpage on a nonstandard port, and have a password challenge when accessing it. (In the later case... Have a blank page with a password challenge for any page / all ports, so that if someone tries to access the device without actually knowing what they do, even if they get on the WiFi, they aren't likely to end up anywhere useful. After a couple of attempts to figure out the password, and finding a blank page, people would get the idea, and go do something else, i bet.

 

Depending on the dongle for the Pi you get different range, and abilities for the networking connection. I'd suggest something that isn't easily hackable, or eavesdrop-able, the Pi has more then enough RAM / CPU power for it, in an environment like this.

If going with a version with LAN ability, make sure it doesn't circumvent enough of the security to make it unsafe. But a roll of LAN cable might be cheaper then a good "long-range" WiFi dongle that is sensitive enough to pick up the responses from out phones and pads...

Good luck, i wanna keep an eye on this, and see what you make of it.

 

Of course, battery powered is a must. Cord feed an optional bonus.

B!

[Bobosan]

I'm also watching this thread but more interested in Arduino than Pi. Arduino is a bit cheaper and as has been pointed out, the "extras" and add ons will raise the final cost.

[MrB]

Getting the Arduino WiFi, or just LAN, makes it about as expensive as the Pi. The Pi is quite a lot faster, and in reality a competent computer, where the Arduino isn't. It's "just" a microprocessor SoC, with a easy to get to packaging. Don't get me wrong, it's crazy neat what you can do with these things, but things like web server interface to make it platform independent is going to be at the bare minimum a lot harder to do, and most likely cost more then using a Pi. (as far as i know, a Arduino is in the area of 25 bucks, and the Pi is around 35)

Infact, i wish i could go as far as recommend a BeagleBoard, or a PandaBoard ES... In fact, the step up to a Beagle isn't that large, and from there to a Panda, it's again, not that large.

With the beagle you get 4Gb storage, which should be plenty, but no video, which shouldn't be an issue since the idea is to avoid a screen... The Panda again loses you the storage, you'll need to buy your own SD card, but gives both video & WiFi. And bluetooth, what ever you'd want that for. Both the beagle, and especially the Panda is a good bit faster then the Pi to boot.

 

In reality i think the Pi is more then powerful enough for something like what "my" dreams for something like this device would need, while being cheap enough to be realistic. The Beagle, and similar units simply aren't cost effective.

While WiFi as i see it is almost a bare minimum for remote access on platform independent devices, a USB dongle is cheap, and i suppose most of us actually already have one laying around somewhere, weather we know it or not. Me, being somewhat of a computer freak have 4, all unused, laying on the desktop right in front of me. They are also a lot cheaper then the price difference between a Pi and a Beagle... Supposedly you can get a Pi for 25 bucks, but heck if i know where. 35, might be more realistic, but then you still need a SD card, and the WiFi Dongle. If you got one of them at home for free, then your up and running for 50 bucks... The Beagle is "from" 89 bucks, and if you want the good one, around 150. I cant justify that.

 

A possibility would be to build the device as a USB expansion board. (For which the Arduino would be the perfect choice) It would probably need a wider userbase to be really good, but that way you could hook it to anything from a Pi, to a laptop, and access it as a server from your mobile devices, to use it. Thing is, that means you need at least a second bit of hardware, meaning increased costs for those making a dedicated system, and the server-side host software would have to be made in a quite large range of variants to run on all the different ARM's, and x86 CPU's one want to support.

I still think the Pi is one of the best, if not the best choice. At the same time, i haven't been hands on with either, and unless it turns out to be very plug and play, i'm not likely to ever grab one.

At this point i think i'll just shut the japptrapp, and let someone else get a word in.

B!

[Bobosan]

MrB,

 

This site has a wide choice of controllers that may interest you.

 

Found a Pi starter kit here. Is this a reasonable price for the included items?

 

The Arduino Pro minis can be had for around $10 USD but it's the extras that bump the overall cost of a project.

 

late edit - having plenty of "irons in the fire" already, one of the other reason I'm shying away from the Pi is another pgrming language. Already familiar with PBASIC on the Basic Stamp and C for the Arduino. Just not enough time to devote to the Raspberry, however, if it can use a subset of Unix then just maybe.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Bobosan

[schroedinger]

Well there are different types of the pi, the A costs about 25 $ and the B/B+ about 35. For a firing system like this the A type should be sufficient, but as it lacks the LAN port and has only 1 USB hub, it is would need an extra usb hub and would be forced to get an external W/LAN port, which would make it more expensive then the B+ which allready has 4 USB ports and a LAN port.

 

The programm will be command line based, (at least in the first versions). I'm at the momment not sure which programming language i will be using. But i tend to use write the core code in BASH, specially as this would allow gawk to be used for reading the configuration file, thus allowing an easy storage of premade firing sequences without taking up a lot of space. Also it would be easy to implement to implement functions written in other languages like perl and keep track by using exit codes.

 

@B screw putty, get a linux operating system and work in TTY ;-)

 

Also i worked out what will be the first setup.

The core module will be likely to get Powered by 1-2 smal 12 V lead batteries.

It will get 12-18 internal firing ports. To save some cost's the Continuty testing system will only be available by button pressing on the module itself.

Also i will prepare the board to be upgraded to accept up to 4 external modules, which will connected by using normal LAN cable as power cord. But this will done after the main unit is working.

All gpio ports will be suited with a diode to prevent the pi from getting barbecued.

[MrB]

late edit - having plenty of "irons in the fire" already, one of the other reason I'm shying away from the Pi is another pgrming language. Already familiar with PBASIC on the Basic Stamp and C for the Arduino. Just not enough time to devote to the Raspberry, however, if it can use a subset of Unix then just maybe.

 

The Pi is capable of running a couple of Linux flavors. Does that count as unix subset?

 

@schroedinger:

I got a Linux system. thats my mobile device. The phone, that is. But i have no idea what TTY is, or how to use it. And i'm really not going to be tossing typed commands around when trying to launch my fireworks. Putty atleast lets me create "rightclick" menu items that sends preconfigured commands, that you can lable. Or at least as far as my memory goes, it does... Been a while since i had to cobble together commands and get it right in a hurry, just so that i wouldn't get caught on the way in.... or out.

And in the interest of making it platform independent any GUI with buttons shouldn't be run on the device your using to actually do the launching from, since that means i has to be able to run on that device. I keep returning to my nag about a tiny webserver, and putting the GUI there. Every WiFi capable device is pretty much certain to have some web browser ability. Be it an old PSP, or a brand new laptop, pad, or phone. Even iStuffs has a browser, for the users that are at such a disadvantage.

B!

[ivars21]

I am working on a project that involves Arduino based wireless firing remote and module. Total of 144 cues of one module (12x12 cat5 slats), Supports 12-24V external battery supply. Remote has LCD display and all of the same features as any two-way communication system (you can check continuity remotely, battery voltage etc), up to 4 modules per channel, 100 channels, so plenty to play with. Remote also supports Pyro firing PC software, so any musical shows can be shot with this remote, or scripted data from Finale fireworks imported.

At the moment adjusting last bugs before sending files to manufacture PCBs, cost wise - half of the Cobra. Most difficult part is testing it long enough before anything commercial size can be done.

 

As for the lan interface and ras-pi, IMO quite inconvenient to take your laptop with you for few shells.

Edited September 7, 2014 by ivars21

[Bobosan]

 

The Pi is capable of running a couple of Linux flavors. Does that count as unix subset?

 

 

Definitely. The Linux varieties add a few useful tools as well. OpenLinux and Mandrake are two old school packages I have here.

[schroedinger]

Yes linux must count as unix derivate, there is a slackware version for the Pi, which keeps things quite close to unix.

 

@B TTY is a non emulated comand line terminal and don't worry about using a command line based tool, as it will only be one command, which can be written in advance and will be about 10 letters long.

 

For an onsite firing laptop a netbook would be the best i think or an tablet.

 

@Ivars the big advance i see in the pi vs. the arsunio is that you can make changes to your system without too much of new programming, which allows the system to start as a functioning system and evolve over time to your personal needs.

Also the main focus of this build will be to work reliable, be adjustable to your own needs/wishes and still be quite cheap. Also I'm not planing making this system commercially available, it clearly just aims on the amateur who wants to build his own system, which has some nice features.

[MrB]

As for the lan interface and ras-pi, IMO quite inconvenient to take your laptop with you for few shells.

For a few shells... Definitely.

 

@B TTY is a non emulated comand line terminal and don't worry about using a command line based tool, as it will only be one command, which can be written in advance and will be about 10 letters long.

Alright, My Nokia has that... I think. But i'm not sure how a single 10 letter long command will let me trigger cues one by one, or a bunch as fast as i please. It would seam each cue needs it's own command, or, you need to set up the firring sequence and can then only trigger it. (And for F-sake make sure there is an abort function for sequenced stuff. I can see something that just keeps triggering after things go horribly wrong otherways...)

 

For an onsite firing laptop a netbook would be the best i think or an tablet.

Tablet, phone, laptop, PC, anything, depending on the size of the installation, and whats most convenient at the location. For a small test shoot i can see just pulling out a phone, and triggering the single cues one by one. For a more elaborate event, even if just a "amateur" one, you can have whole deal, projectors, lasers, and audio, as well as the pyro controlled from a single laptop. Be it sequenced or individual cues.

B!

[schroedinger]

Ok, i will write two firing mechanism for the start, the first one will be single fire skript, which will fire shells by givin in a code like 'echo 1 | ./single' where the number is the fired que.

The second tool will be for pre arranged firing scripts which will properbly either be be launched by a 'cat sequence | ./multi' type command. And thanks to normal bash behaviour it will be easy to stop firing by just using normal escape via ctrl+c. But for normal abortion it will also get a common RC relay witch will be placed between the batterie and the firing cues, set to toggle mode. On normal closed it will allow firing on open it will cut the line.

[MrB]

And thanks to normal bash behaviour it will be easy to stop firing by just using normal escape via ctrl+c.

As long as that works with your device... I can see touch-screen having issues with this, but i haven't tried it. (I'm not sure there is a CTRL button on mine, for example)

B!

[schroedinger]

Yes, for mobile devices without a ctrl it can be a problem, but still then there is the emergency remote.

[Pirotecnia]

Hi people,

 

Have you seen this? http://blog.codyerekson.me/hellbox/

 

I'm a programmer and i'm interested to make something similiar.

 

Thanks!