OblivionFall Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Hi there, This is a pretty bland question, but I was wondering how heavy of a payload a C-3 or C-5 etc ESTES Model Rocket engine could lift 50+ feet? I don't need an exact answer, but I just need an approximate one. If it's of any value I unrolled the tube and weighed out the weight of (what I think is) rammed black powder and it weighed out to be about 13 grams.
pyrokid Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 If no one has any data, you can always try it yourself. Make some inert payloads and increase weight until failure occurs. I remember estes motors having a very long burn duration.
stix Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Looking at this link you should have about 11grams of fuel - Max thrust of 1400grams.http://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Motors/Estes_Motors/18mm_Motors/Estes_Motors_C6-0 Get your data from that, then enter your details here.http://www.unm.edu/~tbeach/flashstuff/RocketAltitudeFixedSize.html You should get a pretty good idea. Steve. [EDIT] In actual fact, you don't need the estes data as you can select estes motors from within the altitude program.Remember to calculate for single stage only. OK, got bored - according the the program, you should be able to lift around 280grams (not including the motor weight) to approx 50ft with a 'C' class motor. Edited September 2, 2014 by stix
Juiceh Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 50 ft isn't very high.. what are you trying to lift?
taiwanluthiers Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 yea you could actually lift things to 50ft with compressed air more safely than a rocket... I'm concerned that any rocket that flies only 50 ft will be too slow for it to be safe, unless it's a very small rocket, which would certainly be overkill on a C engine.
mabuse00 Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 If you don't want/need much altitude I'd say ~120-140g takeoff weight with a C6.In this case you should only use the 3 seconds delay, otherwise you'll get lawn darts.
OblivionFall Posted September 5, 2014 Author Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) 50 ft isn't very high.. what are you trying to lift?I'm going to try to lift a 3/4" I.D. 6-8g flash powder report about 50-100ft high. I'm going to test one then make it the same and blast it off with my friends on Halloween.I'm pretty sure the whole weight of the 3/4" salute is about 20-60g which is a very rough approximation but I have to weigh it when my new aluminum powder comes in in about a month. My other option would be to try to lift a charge that is about 15g of the painfully slow burning flash powder I had left over. The whole salute weighs 36g and I have no doubt that the rocket will be able to lift it at least 50ft. Edited September 5, 2014 by OblivionFall
pyrokid Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) I'm going to try to lift a 3/4" I.D. 6-8g flash powder report about 50-100ft high. I'm going to test one then make it the same and blast it off with my friends on Halloween.I'm pretty sure the whole weight of the 3/4" salute is about 20-60g which is a very rough approximation but I have to weigh it when my new aluminum powder comes in in about a month. My other option would be to try to lift a charge that is about 15g of the painfully slow burning flash powder I had left over. The whole salute weighs 36g and I have no doubt that the rocket will be able to lift it at least 50ft. If you have your heart set on making a big explosion to impress your friends, just do that. Don't bother trying to have it explode at 50 ft. Estes rockets are designed to lift recoverable rockets and as such, you are forced to compromise when using them for pyrotechnics. The burn duration of those motors and your desired display altitude do not match. Do you have experience flying estes motors with sticks and payloads on them? Do you know where that salute is going? It's generally not recommended to use flash for lift. Basically don't do that. Edited September 5, 2014 by pyrokid
dagabu Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I'm going to try to lift a 3/4" I.D. 6-8g flash powder report about 50-100ft high. I'm going to test one then make it the same and blast it off with my friends on Halloween.I'm pretty sure the whole weight of the 3/4" salute is about 20-60g which is a very rough approximation but I have to weigh it when my new aluminum powder comes in in about a month. My other option would be to try to lift a charge that is about 15g of the painfully slow burning flash powder I had left over. The whole salute weighs 36g and I have no doubt that the rocket will be able to lift it at least 50ft. Um... No. The motor will burn too long, it will not likely go off at your height and if you do find that you have a delay in the motor, it may come back down on you. See guys? This is why I get so cranky about n00bs asking questions. In too much of a hurry to do the research and make a workable solution SAFELY so a compromise is found and we have a generous bomb on a stick that in unlikely to work as planned. Sheesh!
ddewees Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I've heard of people making fake rockets with the tube entirely filled with loose flash. A literal bomb on a stick, for the only purpose of enjoyment on the rocket line. I have to admit, I found the idea quite humorous.
dagabu Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Never seen that on the rocket line but a good whistle CATO is about the same pound for pound...
nater Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I have never seen anyone intentionally CATO a rocket on the line, nor do I find the idea of it humorous. At least at HPA shoots, we frequently share equipment. An accident that destroys my rack is one thing, but intentionally doing so would piss me off. Yes, we laugh and cheer when someone blows up a rocket, but it is not the goal. We're more respinsible than that. 1
ddewees Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Oh please... That horse looks too tall for you. Half those Catos you "laugh and cheer" at, the builder is well aware it's likely going to happen. To claim you're "more respinsable(?)" is ludicrous. Either way, I said I only heard of such a thing... it's likely untrue. I still find the comment humorous. Edited September 5, 2014 by ddewees
Maserface Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 What better way to finish of a 45 second ear piercing whistle than a chest slapping salute?
OblivionFall Posted September 6, 2014 Author Posted September 6, 2014 Um... No. The motor will burn too long, it will not likely go off at your height and if you do find that you have a delay in the motor, it may come back down on you. See guys? This is why I get so cranky about n00bs asking questions. In too much of a hurry to do the research and make a workable solution SAFELY so a compromise is found and we have a generous bomb on a stick that in unlikely to work as planned. Sheesh! All right, I understand. That being said, is there any sort of payload I can launch that makes a loud BANG with an ESTES model rocket engine? I know for a fact that the rocket I'm going to be using will be a C6-3, so it has a 3-second delay.If a big 15g Flash payload would be too risky, would a 6g Flash payload be a good place to start?
dagabu Posted September 6, 2014 Posted September 6, 2014 The issue is that this is not an appropriate use of an ESTES engine, no matter how much flash you use, I'm out... 1
taiwanluthiers Posted September 7, 2014 Posted September 7, 2014 Given the battle NAR fought with ATF, and the fact that this would violate the NAR safety code, don't do it.
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