Jump to content
APC Forum
Get A Password Reset Email From Us? Please Read This.

psyco_1322's Experiments

A blog by psyco_1322 in General

  • entries
    10
  • comments
    28
  • views
    1115476

Insta Campfire Starter - New Info, 2nd Update

psyco_1322

Entry posted by psyco_1322

927 views

 Share

Do you like the new board better? Worse?  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the new board better? Worse?

    • Its much better.
      30
    • Its a little better.
      13
    • There very similar.
      1
    • The old one was a little better.
      1
    • This one sucks.
      2

Being involved in Boy Scouts and Pyro, a friend of mine that runs some "Indian" type of ceromonies asked me of a favor. He was needing a magical camp fire that pretty much started itself. I commited and said I could work something up that should suit the need. The previous way of this was that some nut ran a big o piece of copper wire down a cut out of cardboard 6" or so long. It was then lined with match heads down the piece of copper and then this was covered by dripping wax all over it. Hook this up to a horribly concealed car battery and a Jerry rigged foot switch that was obvious as the light coming from the sun and you get magical camp fires. LAME! This was my solution and keeps getting me requested to set up "magical" campfires:

 

 

First was to whip up some serviceable e-matches. I use the dip kit from Firefox called Extra Low Voltage (ELV) Conductive. They are bridge-less igniters. It lights up real nice and gives a second or so of burn with median sparks. If made right they are quite reliable. Its not like commercial e-matches that "explode" or some peoples flash e-matches that shoot 3 foot flames. This makes it suitable for igniting a packed, wet, composition with out disrupting things in the process. A short section of insulation is striped off leaving a pair of close wire prongs. A good dip in the conductive paste, a drying phase, then another dip in some NC lacquer followed by another drying phase yields a well protected e-match. The other end is striped for hooking up to your electric ignition set up. Here is a picture of a few that I made.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/S4024708.jpg

 

 

The original camp fire igniter container started as a paper cup that was hand rolled. This time I decided to go with a container that would hold up and be resistant to liquid portion of the fuel. I settled on some PVC end caps after some brain storming and testing. The fuel burns with quite a large flame and if in a tube tends to create a directed, steady jet of fire. The PVC cap does not burn away and keeps the jet action going through out the entire burn.

 

I used a 1" PVC cap for this set up, as I want to make sure it has plenty of burn time encase there might be damp wood issues. If you are sure that your camp fire is built well and is nice and dry you could get away with a smaller cap along the line of 3/4" or so. I drilled a 3/16" whole in the side just a bit down from the top of the cap. This is to accept the e-match. If you match is of different size, adjust your whole accordingly.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/S4024709.jpg

 

 

To insure a good, snug fit in the whole, as the e-match is quite flat I wrap it in a few turns of masking tape. In this case I used some purple painting tape so it would show up nicer in the pictures. Normally I would use plain masking tape as this stuff has very little adhesiveness. I got it on clearance at walmart, couldn't pass up good tape prices ;)

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/S4024711.jpg

 

 

Time to mix up some fuel for the fire. The formula I came up with is simple and use two commonly found materials (for the pyro atleast). Its a mix of Ammonium Perchlorate and Boiled Linseed Oil. I tried many different oils from the kitchen and they were all very touchy on ratios and how they were mixed. They also did not compare to the burning properties of linseed oil. This mix is quite forgiving and could almost be mixed by eye. But we has scales :D A ratio of 6:1, NH4CLO4 : Linseed Oil seems to be working best for me right now. I used unscreened cheap AP from Firefox. I have used good stuff before and it just adds to costs. Just mix it up in a cup or something you can throw away later, or burn if your that crazy.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/S4024712.jpg

 

 

I then pack the fuel into the PVC end cap up to just under the hole that was drilled for the e-match. I usually push a hole into the fuel for the igniter to go into. That was an idea before the side ported e-match so it seems to be more difficult to get it on the whole with the igniter through the side of the cap. Either way the igniter is put in pointed down and the fuel is packed around it.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/S4024714.jpg

 

 

I cut out a square of foil tape to place over the end of the cap. This is to keep the fuel from drying out as the linseed oil will eventually dry up and alter the burning of the fuel. Its also serves to keep junk such as dirt and scraps of wood out of the igniter during storage and use.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/S4024715.jpg

 

 

I use a sharpie to make a nice noticeable X on the top of the foil to remind me to puncture it before use. I have tried it with the foil covering it with out a hole in it, it often leads to a small explosion upon ignition. An explosion can also occur if the igniter is buried clear at the bottom of the fuel instead of right under the surface. A small hole about ¼” will work fine but may delay the jet a bit until the foil is burned open some. I cut right on the X, instead of punching a hole in it, and it seems to help get things going even faster. I also installed a bit of tape to keep the e-match wires protected.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/S4024716.jpg

 

 

This is then buried in the ground after your e-match has been hooked up to the leads of your ignition system. Burying it insures that it says in place and pointed up through the campfire through out burn. I was in sand and had to dig down to get some wet sand that would pack around it nicely and hold it steady.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/P2270353.jpg

 

 

After its placed be sure to puncture the tape or you will get some unwanted effects coming from your fire. Here I am cutting the X out with my Kershaw.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/P2270354.jpg

 

 

I like to make a little trench and burry my lead wires. It helps to keep your wires from getting roasted by the fire and makes it look like your not running a 110v campfire. As this was just a quick test of materials and equipment, I did not trench the entire wire. If you have to do it for a setting, you should plan ahead and lay your wire several hours before hand. This will allow time for any wet dirt to dry out and become natural looking again, otherwise its like a big dark arrow pointing toward the guy with the ignition system.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/P2270355.jpg

 

 

Your fire is then built around the igniter. Pretty much skipping tender as this is replaced by the inferno jet and going straight to kindling. This is anything from pencil size up to about the size of your finger, and nice and dry to easily take fire. In this case we used some old roof shingles, they burn like fly paper. Try to make the base of the fire narrow and allow plenty of material to stake up about the direct path of fire from the igniter.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/P2270356.jpg

 

 

After that you can start to add larger pieces of wood, up to about the diameter of a quarter in size. Remembering to keep the bases of the stick in tight. These fires are built more pointy than would a normal fire made to start from some wadded up paper or the like. Oak tree bark is very good for fires. Not only does it light easy and burn good but often is covered with fuzzy, stringy stuff on the inside that makes for good starter or to entice the bark to light easier.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/P2270358.jpg

 

 

You can now add some nice sized piece up to about the size of your wrist. A few of these around your teepee will land you a nice fire that will burn hot and long enough to get a log or two going. I did not build this fire up too much because it was only a test and was not intended to burn but for a few minutes. You could easily build this up to 3 times the size or even more if you wanted a bond fire size of teepee. This picture also show my cable that will go back to my ignition system.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/P2270359.jpg

 

 

The only thing left is to hook up your cables and let her rip. This is a video of this exact set up that I have walked you through. Burn length of the igniter was about 25 seconds. Overkill? Probably. They wanted extra insurance incase of damp wood though, so you may be able to use a small cap with less fuel as mentioned before. Never mind the little kids that run up to the fire like they haven’t ever seen one before. And No, I’m not seen in the video, just heard.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/th_Fire_1.jpg

 

 

Edit #1

 

Here is another video of the same igniter being used during a short ceremony. I did not build this fire although. It was build in a more traditional campfire style were the wood is staked more outwards than upwards. Usually its natural for people to build them like such and it makes for a fire that is larger in diameter. Again, since the igniter creates a straight up jet of fire its best to have as much of your starter wood directly above the igniter. It still managed to light this fire fine but it was up to the fire and whoever made it that it would continue to get going. It took its time getting up to a roaring flame, where as if built as I showed it gets up and going real quick. There is a quick pause I made to show a time lapse of the fire.

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/th_S4024730.jpg

 

 

I will sometime soon be lighting an igniter in the plain open to get a video of what it really looks like. Its kind of hard to tell what's really happening when you're looking at a pile of wood. This just happens to be a test of storage time also. This igniter I intend on burning was made a few weeks ago and has been setting around, sealed with the foil tape, and with the e-match in it. Video on that soon.

 

 

Edit #2

 

I figured if I was going to test an open burning igniter I would at least make an attempt at measuring the heght of the igniters jet. For this I took a piece of roasted PVC pipe I had laying around. When rockets dont fly, the pipe gets pretty messed up, but its working for this purpose. I marked the pipe every inch so it can act as a stationary ruler. I pushed it into the ground and burried an igniter beside it making sure that the first line and igniter height are even. About 1" of pipe was in the ground. Max flame height looked to be a bit over 10 inches for the first 50% of the burn time. It then dropped down to the 6-7 inch range. That's one hell of a flame! I'm not sure why it decided to go spastic at the end. I'm guessing some fuel got loose and caused some excessive additional burning. I could hear the pressure go up significantly and then it spit out some chunks and burnt out. This igniter was made about 3 weeks ago and has set sealed with the e-match in place the whole time. Now you can see why you want the fire built up and over the jet path. Video:

 

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/Insta%20Campfire/th_S4024741.jpg

 

 

 

Any questions or comments are appreciated. I will do my best to help you out if you have any issues.

 

 

 

Edit: Addition movie w/ info and upcoming events.

 Share

6 Comments

Recommended Comments

Swede

Swede 21

Posted

That is flat-out cool, and the video is very impressive! Nice job!

 

Does the fuel require ammonium perchlorate? What happens if you use potassium perchlorate or some other oxidizer?

psyco_1322

psyco_1322 66

Posted

That is flat-out cool, and the video is very impressive! Nice job!

 

Does the fuel require ammonium perchlorate? What happens if you use potassium perchlorate or some other oxidizer?

 

Thanks!

 

I tried with KClO4, and did not get anywhere. It's oxidizing properties seem to be very different and more stubborn than that of the AP. Even in ratios where the comp was only slightly dampened and crumbly there was about no ignition to a constant burn. Holding a torch to it would cause random surface flashes. So it would never work to be ignited with an e-match of any sort. I'm sure something with KClO3 could be made but would be weary of an unwanted reaction taking place. I just received some KClO3 the other day and have never worked with it before. It might be a test for a nicer day. I've seen incendiaries made with KNO3, one of which I tested and could not get to work properly. Might also be something to look into. The easy ignition of the AP and its super slow burn rate along with the huge flame is just remarkable, so I see no reason to switch to anything else. I'm using crappy unscreened AP, paid $6/lb for it, nothing special. No need for 90um stuff that will run you $12/lb.

tentacles

tentacles 5

Posted

I would be wary of using KClO3 with boiled linseed oil; it self-polymerizes quite agressively, and with something as reactive as KClO3, it might react to grab the oxygen in it's polymerization efforts. I expect the polymerizing is why it seems to work better with an oxidizer than other oils - it's obviously more readily oxidized. Other "boiled" oils might work well, old fryer grease for example.

 

This is a slick idea.

psyco_1322

psyco_1322 66

Posted

You mean sick idea? I ain't mixing up old fryer oil with anything! Come out all fishy smelling. :P You do it!

 

Ya, like I said though, I don't think trying it with KClO3 would be a good idea. That stuff tends to be unpredictable at times.

FrankRizzo

FrankRizzo 40

Posted

Very cool, man! I remember those Order of the Arrow ceremonies back in the day ;-) We used to use a model rocket ignitor and a ziploc sandwich baggie of "girl scout water" (coleman fuel) to start ours.
psyco_1322

psyco_1322 66

Posted

Very cool, man! I remember those Order of the Arrow ceremonies back in the day ;-) We used to use a model rocket ignitor and a ziploc sandwich baggie of "girl scout water" (coleman fuel) to start ours.

 

Haha, sounded exciting. You put the igniter on the outside of the bag to break it open? I would think all that fuel would just drown out the pissy little sizzle those things make. I like the idea of the fire just bursting into a big ol roaring ball of flames :D

×
×
  • Create New...